American Politics from 2019 on

[JimC]

So, Brand is an innocent victim of the evil corporate media, which at the same time protected Epstein's guilty cronies because (insert conspiracy theory #)...

[Cunt]

So, Brand is an innocent victim of the evil corporate media, which at the same time protected Epstein's guilty cronies because (insert conspiracy theory #)...

That's a theory, I guess.

Mine is that the media companies, who knew about him for decades, suddenly got interested in seeking accusations from his past. Then they coordinated to spread the smear, including government, social media companies in other countries, and finally, maybe, law enforcement.

His guilt or innocence isn't really relevant to the theory that they are lying, corrupt smear merchants.

Though decent folk would consider the tradition of 'innocent until PROVEN guilty', before having sentence meted out.

Getting back to US politics, one of the most brilliant Democrats around has caused many memes to be created.

He wasn't doing crime to stop a government proceeding lol

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

[L'Emmerdeur]

Happily regurgitating unproven right-wing smears, but skepticism is aroused when women accuse a known creep of sexual assault.

I don't know which 'unproven right-wing smears' you are referring to, but I doubt you were going for clarity or anything.

As to the accusations by anonymous acquaintances of Brand, you are, of course, welcome to accept them uncritically. The corporate media worked hard to find some dirt on the old, self-admitted sex and drug addict. They've invested a lot of time and resources. What a waste if no-one fell for it.

I'll think about how the media treated the Trevor Bauer case, and go ahead and dismiss their current smears as if they are from a known dishonest organization.

You uncritically accept the claim that Ilhan Omar married her brother. The smear goes back to 2016, and no evidence has ever been produced to support it, yet you've consistently and mindlessly parroted it. The claim is that she married Ahmed Nur Said Elmi (supposedly her brother) to help him get into the US, but the fact is that if he were a member of her family (most of whom were already naturalized in the US) there would have been no need to marry somebody in the US to get immigration status. Two years after the marriage, Elmi returned to the UK, where he had citizenship. If the marriage were to help him get into the US, why did he then return to the UK? It's nonsensical on its face, and you would know that if you'd been even the least skeptical of the smear, but that's not how you roll, is it?

[Cunt]

So accusations should be supported by robust evidence, eh?

Trump has recently been accused of fraud, for over-valuing a property (Mar-A-Lago). The bank lending him money though, agreed on his valuation.

Do you dismiss this show trial because the evidence is bad? Or will you be hoping they get him this time, regardless of how stupid the case against him is?

If you do think Trump is guilty of something in this case, do detail who the victim is. Also which value of Mar-A-Lago is closer to the accurate market value? The prosecutors? Or the bank and Trump?

[Cunt]

Anyone else notice that this trial is devoid of victims, ignores the facts, and doesn't make much sense from any direction?

Except to 'get Trump' of course. Can't have him getting citizens to vote for him. It would be dangerous to their democracy.

[Sean Hayden]

I’m happy to call the bank’s fraudsters too. They did know he was full of shit, but still stood to gain anyway. That’s how people like this work, you too from what I gather by the way you talk—if it works, it works.

[Cunt]

I’m happy to call the bank’s fraudsters too. They did know he was full of shit, but still stood to gain anyway. That’s how people like this work, you too from what I gather by the way you talk—if it works, it works.

What 'worked' exactly?

Who was the victim in this invented fraud?

Who is injured, and how?

And please look at the valuation, and tell me who's you believe - the bank and Trump, or the prosecutor.

[L'Emmerdeur]

So accusations should be supported by robust evidence, eh?

Trump has recently been accused of fraud, for over-valuing a property (Mar-A-Lago). The bank lending him money though, agreed on his valuation.

Do you dismiss this show trial because the evidence is bad? Or will you be hoping they get him this time, regardless of how stupid the case against him is?

If you do think Trump is guilty of something in this case, do detail who the victim is. Also which value of Mar-A-Lago is closer to the accurate market value? The prosecutors? Or the bank and Trump?

Not that I expect you to bother with facts, but here we go...

The Trump Organization (not Trump himself) has already been found guilty of tax fraud, and Trump himself has been found liable for fraud. It's not just an accusation, so your whole schtick here is apparently based on ignorance.

The current trial is to determine just how much Trump and the Trump Organization will have to pay for the crime for which they have already been judged. You claim that the 'evidence is bad.' It was good enough to result in a guilty verdict, so your claim is unfounded unless you have more to support the claim than your own willingness to take Trump's side regardless of the facts.

[Sean Hayden]

I’m happy to call the bank’s fraudsters too. They did know he was full of shit, but still stood to gain anyway. That’s how people like this work, you too from what I gather by the way you talk—if it works, it works.

What 'worked' exactly?

Who was the victim in this invented fraud?

Who is injured, and how?

And please look at the valuation, and tell me who's you believe - the bank and Trump, or the prosecutor.

I don’t pay enough attention to specifics to give a detailed response. I just take it as a given that lending more money to a business that’s already defaulted on another of your loans, just so that they can repay a separate loan they have with you, means you know they’re full of it—you both are—and you’re both involved in shady shit.

[Cunt]

So accusations should be supported by robust evidence, eh?

Trump has recently been accused of fraud, for over-valuing a property (Mar-A-Lago). The bank lending him money though, agreed on his valuation.

Do you dismiss this show trial because the evidence is bad? Or will you be hoping they get him this time, regardless of how stupid the case against him is?

If you do think Trump is guilty of something in this case, do detail who the victim is. Also which value of Mar-A-Lago is closer to the accurate market value? The prosecutors? Or the bank and Trump?

Not that I expect you to bother with facts, but here we go...

The Trump Organization (not Trump himself) has already been found guilty of tax fraud, and Trump himself has been found liable for fraud. It's not just an accusation, so your whole schtick here is apparently based on ignorance.

The current trial is to determine just how much Trump and the Trump Organization will have to pay for the crime for which they have already been judged. You claim that the 'evidence is bad.' Apparently it was good enough to result in a guilty verdict, so your claim is unfounded unless you have more to support the claim than your own willingness to take Trump's side regardless of the facts.

NPR, a VERY unbiased news source, surely.

They don't mention that Mar-A-Lago detail. Weird.

In a statement, the Trump Organization criticized the verdict and promised to appeal, arguing that blame should fall on the company's executives and not on the firm itself.

"The notion that a company could be held responsible for an employees' actions, to benefit themselves, on their own personal tax returns is simply preposterous," the statement read.

CNN, another VERY unbiased news source, barely touched on it.

What I was asking about. The Mar-A-Lago part...where someone lied about it's market value. Do you think it more likely that a lender was incorrect, the property owner borrowing against it, or the prosecutor?

Because if there was a lie there, it might be easy to find, by examining the value of that property.

[Tero]

The exact value of Mar a Lago is on Zillow. Look there. West Palm Beach/Palm Beach.

[Cunt]

The exact value of Mar a Lago is on Zillow. Look there. West Palm Beach/Palm Beach.

So no numbers, huh?

I checked wikipedia (known biased source) who said...

According to financial disclosure forms filed by Trump, the Mar-a-Lago Club had $29.7 million in gross revenues in the period June 2015 through May 2016.[36] The club had revenues of $25.1 million for calendar year 2017, $22 million in 2018, and $21.4 million in 2019.[37][38]

In 2022, Forbes estimated the value of the estate at around $350 million.[25] Forbes said that 'Real estate experts outside of Palm Beach guessed that the place was worth more than $200 million. Brokers on the island thought it could be worth far more, with the most aggressive estimate coming in at $725 million. When Forbes last valued the property in March, we went with a conservative $350 million.' In a 2022 lawsuit filed by New York Attorney General Letitia James, it was alleged that Trump inflated the value of Mar-a-Lago to $739 million, when the property should actually be valued at $75 million.[39]

So Forbes said 350 million. Letitia James said 75 million.

Someone is doing a fraud. Is there history to suggest why the prestigious Ms. James may have been motivated to bullshit about a Trump case?

[rasetsu]

The exact value of Mar a Lago is on Zillow. Look there. West Palm Beach/Palm Beach.

So no numbers, huh?

I checked wikipedia (known biased source) who said...

According to financial disclosure forms filed by Trump, the Mar-a-Lago Club had $29.7 million in gross revenues in the period June 2015 through May 2016.[36] The club had revenues of $25.1 million for calendar year 2017, $22 million in 2018, and $21.4 million in 2019.[37][38]

In 2022, Forbes estimated the value of the estate at around $350 million.[25] Forbes said that 'Real estate experts outside of Palm Beach guessed that the place was worth more than $200 million. Brokers on the island thought it could be worth far more, with the most aggressive estimate coming in at $725 million. When Forbes last valued the property in March, we went with a conservative $350 million.' In a 2022 lawsuit filed by New York Attorney General Letitia James, it was alleged that Trump inflated the value of Mar-a-Lago to $739 million, when the property should actually be valued at $75 million.[39]

So Forbes said 350 million. Letitia James said 75 million.

Someone is doing a fraud. Is there history to suggest why the prestigious Ms. James may have been motivated to bullshit about a Trump case?

The higher quotes came post-pandemic after market conditions had changed. They're not relevant if the question is inflation of pre-pandemic values.

[Cunt]

The exact value of Mar a Lago is on Zillow. Look there. West Palm Beach/Palm Beach.

So no numbers, huh?

I checked wikipedia (known biased source) who said...

According to financial disclosure forms filed by Trump, the Mar-a-Lago Club had $29.7 million in gross revenues in the period June 2015 through May 2016.[36] The club had revenues of $25.1 million for calendar year 2017, $22 million in 2018, and $21.4 million in 2019.[37][38]

In 2022, Forbes estimated the value of the estate at around $350 million.[25] Forbes said that 'Real estate experts outside of Palm Beach guessed that the place was worth more than $200 million. Brokers on the island thought it could be worth far more, with the most aggressive estimate coming in at $725 million. When Forbes last valued the property in March, we went with a conservative $350 million.' In a 2022 lawsuit filed by New York Attorney General Letitia James, it was alleged that Trump inflated the value of Mar-a-Lago to $739 million, when the property should actually be valued at $75 million.[39]

So Forbes said 350 million. Letitia James said 75 million.

Someone is doing a fraud. Is there history to suggest why the prestigious Ms. James may have been motivated to bullshit about a Trump case?

The higher quotes came post-pandemic after market conditions had changed. They're not relevant if the question is inflation of pre-pandemic values.

Well, it still makes it tough to understand why a bank went along with his higher value (fraudulently) while Ms. James and her office valued it far lower.

Who is the victim here? The bank who made MUCH more on interest than they might have? The people reaping the taxes on that higher amount?

[Tero]

Its's under 100 million.
Newsweek: Elsewhere, he shared listings for other houses on the market in Palm Beach, with prices ranging between $38.9 million and $59.9 million, despite being seemingly far smaller than Mar-a-Lago.

So maybe 100. Not more.

The golf course is a separate property a few miles West.