Would you describe yourself as patriotic?

[Hermit]

If you're not patriotic, you don't like the place in you're in.

I like the place I'm in, but I don't feel patriotic. I looked the meaning up. "Love and devotion to one's country" does not compute. Yes, I live in a country that I prefer over all others, but my love and devotion does not extend to over half the population that keeps voting in conservative governments, the last lot of which took several measures reintroducing theocracy in addition to taking from the poor and giving to the rich.

I also steer away from patriotism because it is used to suck people in to become cannon fodder.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I am not patriotic.

Will you be when you move?

Maybe, I like Scotland more than I like the U.S. in regard to a lot of their laws and the culture fits me more as well. Of course I won't know until I have lived there for a while. I've just never felt any loyalty to the U.S.

Loyalty is just one aspect of patriotism for me. Love of a place, and/or a people, is another. The feeling that you've got better than you've given. And the plain old happy feeling you get when you come home to that spot.

Describing emotions in words is seldom satisfactory (or we'd have a solid definition for "love"), but overall I think "patriotism" is far more complex and interesting than the pop culture sound bites would have us believe.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you're not patriotic, you don't like the place in you're in.

I like the place I'm in, but I don't feel patriotic. I looked the meaning up. "Love and devotion to one's country" does not compute. Yes, I live in a country that I prefer over all others, but my love and devotion does not extend to over half the population that keeps voting in conservative governments, the last lot of which took several measures reintroducing theocracy in addition to taking from the poor and giving to the rich.

I also steer away from patriotism because it is used to suck people in to become cannon fodder.

Rare is the word that only has one meaning.

[Atheist-Lite]

A slightly distorted sense of place when Einstein declared no fixed frame of reference.

[Hermit]

If you're not patriotic, you don't like the place in you're in.

I like the place I'm in, but I don't feel patriotic. I looked the meaning up. "Love and devotion to one's country" does not compute. Yes, I live in a country that I prefer over all others, but my love and devotion does not extend to over half the population that keeps voting in conservative governments, the last lot of which took several measures reintroducing theocracy in addition to taking from the poor and giving to the rich.

I also steer away from patriotism because it is used to suck people in to become cannon fodder.

Rare is the word that only has one meaning.

True, but that is one meaning causing me to steer clear of it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you're not patriotic, you don't like the place in you're in.

I like the place I'm in, but I don't feel patriotic. I looked the meaning up. "Love and devotion to one's country" does not compute. Yes, I live in a country that I prefer over all others, but my love and devotion does not extend to over half the population that keeps voting in conservative governments, the last lot of which took several measures reintroducing theocracy in addition to taking from the poor and giving to the rich.

I also steer away from patriotism because it is used to suck people in to become cannon fodder.

Rare is the word that only has one meaning.

True, but that is one meaning causing me to steer clear of it.

Instead of being controlled by that one meaning, why not simply avoid that aspect of patriotism?

[Hermit]

If you're not patriotic, you don't like the place in you're in.

I like the place I'm in, but I don't feel patriotic. I looked the meaning up. "Love and devotion to one's country" does not compute. Yes, I live in a country that I prefer over all others, but my love and devotion does not extend to over half the population that keeps voting in conservative governments, the last lot of which took several measures reintroducing theocracy in addition to taking from the poor and giving to the rich.

I also steer away from patriotism because it is used to suck people in to become cannon fodder.

Rare is the word that only has one meaning.

True, but that is one meaning causing me to steer clear of it.

Instead of being controlled by that one meaning, why not simply avoid that aspect of patriotism?

It's not the only reason I am not patriotic.

[Twoflower]

I am not patriotic.

Will you be when you move?

Maybe, I like Scotland more than I like the U.S. in regard to a lot of their laws and the culture fits me more as well. Of course I won't know until I have lived there for a while. I've just never felt any loyalty to the U.S.

Loyalty is just one aspect of patriotism for me. Love of a place, and/or a people, is another. The feeling that you've got better than you've given. And the plain old happy feeling you get when you come home to that spot.

Describing emotions in words is seldom satisfactory (or we'd have a solid definition for "love"), but overall I think "patriotism" is far more complex and interesting than the pop culture sound bites would have us believe.

I don't feel love for America, but I do for Traverse City and most of Northern Michigan, the people I love I would love no matter where they lived, I don't feel like I've got better than what I've given, I feel happy when I am away from the U.S. and unhappy when I come back.

[JOZeldenrust]

Seems to me that thinking your country is the best is a little like thinking your god is the best! Are you patriotic? If so how do you justify it?

I think the country I live in is pretty well organized. It's comfortable, in a part of the world where political turmoil and natural disasters are quite unlikely. So yeah, I like living here.

I'm not proud of my country. I had nothing to do with anything that makes this country a nice place to live, and honestly most tings that make this country a nice place to live weren't the result of conscious action on anyones part anyway. There are also other parts of the world that, though undoubtly different, are also very nice places to live. I'm sure The Netherlands are in no meaningful way better then the American east coast (no offense to all you west coast dwellers, but fault lines are something that make a place less desirable to live in) or Germany or Sweden.

I don't think national pride is neccesarily a bad thing, but like any sense of pride in group membership it is a bit dangerous. It can be used to divide people. If having national pride means celebrating the thing that make people different, then I guess I do feel a little national pride. But I certainly wouldn't die for my country. If Germany wanted to conquer us (I mean Germany as it is now, not as it was seventy years ago), I'd welcome our new Teutonic overlords.

[Geoff]

Loyalty is just one aspect of patriotism for me. Love of a place, and/or a people, is another. The feeling that you've got better than you've given. And the plain old happy feeling you get when you come home to that spot.

I can see that, but I only get that feeling when I get back to Wigan, not when I first land in England. Much as Twofy says about Traverse City and the US, that's the way I feel.

When i came back to UK in the early 90's, after 8 years living abroad, I was "meh" when we arrived at Heathrow, increasingly excited as we neared home...then a severe culture shock once seeing all the changes that had happened while I was away...then I was home.

[Coito ergo sum]

I am not patriotic.

Will you be when you move?

Maybe, I like Scotland more than I like the U.S. in regard to a lot of their laws and the culture fits me more as well. Of course I won't know until I have lived there for a while. I've just never felt any loyalty to the U.S.

Loyalty is just one aspect of patriotism for me. Love of a place, and/or a people, is another. The feeling that you've got better than you've given. And the plain old happy feeling you get when you come home to that spot.

Describing emotions in words is seldom satisfactory (or we'd have a solid definition for "love"), but overall I think "patriotism" is far more complex and interesting than the pop culture sound bites would have us believe.

I don't feel love for America, but I do for Traverse City and most of Northern Michigan, the people I love I would love no matter where they lived, I don't feel like I've got better than what I've given, I feel happy when I am away from the U.S. and unhappy when I come back.

I feel love for the U.S., but not for northern Michigan. It should be ceded to Canada.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think this issue seems to boil down to what definition a person ascribes to the word "patriotism." Those that dislike the word seem to think of it as, like, "my country right or wrong," "if you don't like it, get the fuck out," or "we are awesome and you suck," kind of mentalities. Granted, there are plenty of folks out there that act like that. However, I think those folks on this thread that are comfortable with the word don't think of it in those terms. Those of us, like Gawdzilla and myself, I think, are looking at patriotism as more of a love of country without denigrating other countries - a loyalty to one's country, but not a blind, unthinking, unquestioning loyalty.

I do love the US, and I don't see why loving the country I was born and raised in has to be such a horrid thing. It's certainly no virtue, IMHO, to think that one's country sucks ass. Is that value judgment any "better?" My country sucks? That's o.k.? Or, that's more "nuanced" than "I love my country?"

It's not a zero sum game - I can love my country without denigrating another country. I don't have to think my country is "the best," either. Think of the Canadian national anthem:

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Can a Canadian sing that song and feel a true sense of love and devotion to Canada without it being a jingoistic, my way or the highway and the rest of you suck ass type sentiment? I think so. I don't think Canadians who feel that kind of sense of patriotism are saying to everyone else that their countries suck, and they're not "dividing" groups in a negative way, necessarily. I mean - some folks do take the patriotism thing to the point of totalitarian nationalism. But, I doubt most of us go that far.

[Geoff]

I think this issue seems to boil down to what definition a person ascribes to the word "patriotism." Those that dislike the word seem to think of it as, like, "my country right or wrong," "if you don't like it, get the fuck out," or "we are awesome and you suck," kind of mentalities. Granted, there are plenty of folks out there that act like that. However, I think those folks on this thread that are comfortable with the word don't think of it in those terms. Those of us, like Gawdzilla and myself, I think, are looking at patriotism as more of a love of country without denigrating other countries - a loyalty to one's country, but not a blind, unthinking, unquestioning loyalty.

Yes, I see that; I just don't feel it. To me, it's simply an accident of birth. If it was financially viable for me to move, I could see myself looking objectively at other countries' plus and minus points, and moving to the one that suited me the best, and I certainly wouldn't feel at all disloyal in doing so. I can't think of anything that is considered essentially "British" (except perhaps our beer) that I would miss.

[floppit]

I love where I live, seriously, I love it. But by where I live I mean the vibrant mixed community, I mean spicy smells, second hand markets heaving with global travellers, the egg lady, and the Trent, my river. Take me 3 miles west and I hate it, i'm a fish out of water, it's dull, wannabe liberal that can't stop voting tory. Take me south and east and it's more foreign to me than the indian subcontinent - literally, the latter made perfect sense to me, London left me cold and lost.

I love where I live but 'my' country involves more than my space or my time. Even my love for where I live can be totally at odds with loving my country, my country locks up child refugees, a million miles away from my heart home and it does NOT have my loyalty in all it does.

[Svartalf]

I am not patriotic.

Will you be when you move?

Maybe, I like Scotland more than I like the U.S. in regard to a lot of their laws and the culture fits me more as well. Of course I won't know until I have lived there for a while. I've just never felt any loyalty to the U.S.

Loyalty is just one aspect of patriotism for me. Love of a place, and/or a people, is another. The feeling that you've got better than you've given. And the plain old happy feeling you get when you come home to that spot.

Describing emotions in words is seldom satisfactory (or we'd have a solid definition for "love"), but overall I think "patriotism" is far more complex and interesting than the pop culture sound bites would have us believe.

Is it weird that in ways I feel more patriotic toward Ireland and Scotland, places with which my ties are thin, being materialised by ancestral lines that tied into mine more than two centuries ago, than to the countries of which I am an actual citizen and where I have resided for upward of a year in my life?