The art of debate: arguing without fighting

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FBM
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The art of debate: arguing without fighting

Post by FBM » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:38 pm

In my ideal world, people who interpret/describe reality in radically different ways, and therefore prescribe radically different behavior, are able to discuss those differences in a measured, detached but nevertheless, rigorous manner. Much like researchers investigating/describing experimental phenomena. IOW, cooperating to learn for mutual benefit.
Guided by genuine, even selfish, curiosity rather than mere conquest, if you can imagine such.

But IRL, very few people are capable of that. Sooner or later, one upsmanship, ego-defense and/or self-promotion take precedence over the search for the truth. When that happens, one engages selective bias, ignoring the 'opponent's' valid points and selfishishly dodging, obfuscating, splitting hairs, name-calling, jeering and the like. IOW, resorting to childish behavior and rhetoric.

Most of Ratz is dedicated to having fun, and, no shit, I'm all for that. :drunk:

But I'd like to suggest that we make a special spot for all bullshit to come to an end. That is, a place for 2 individuals to agree to come together and dispassionately compare data on conflicting conclusions, like scientists investigating experimental phenomena, and without dick-measuring, politicising, partisanship and such extraneous pollution ruling the day.

No, I don't mean like the Formal Debates sub-forum at RDF. Even their "formal" debates are so full of rhetoric and posturing that the sub-forum as a whole is a generally a waste of time to read. I mean something along the lines of a 1-on-1 betweem 2 people who are genuinely interested in finding the best available answer to a particular point of contention. Each particular topic may only be interesting to the 2 people involved, but at least they'd have a "neutral corner" in which to drop all hidden agendas and together figure out what's up.

Is that possible here, or am I just whistling Dixie?

I'm thinking... :whistle:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: The art of debate: arguing without fighting

Post by Rum » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:48 pm

Well I for one support the idea, though there are certain derail merchants (you know who you are!) who would have to sign up too! :what:

As an aside I am not sure there is really such a thing as 'dispassionate' debate. People tend always at some point to bring emotion and ego etc. into vigorous debate.

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FBM
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Re: The art of debate: arguing without fighting

Post by FBM » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:08 pm

Rumertron wrote:Well I for one support the idea, though there are certain derail merchants (you know who you are!) who would have to sign up too! :what:

As an aside I am not sure there is really such a thing as 'dispassionate' debate. People tend always at some point to bring emotion and ego etc. into vigorous debate.
Agreed, and that's why I'm not sure this idea will ever get off the ground. This isn't really a scientific or philosophical forum, after all. :levi:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: The art of debate: arguing without fighting

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:10 pm

Rumertron wrote:Well I for one support the idea, though there are certain derail merchants (you know who you are!) who would have to sign up too! :what:
I can be reached through the American Embassy or the local police station. :leave:
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FBM
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Re: The art of debate: arguing without fighting

Post by FBM » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:00 am

Devogue wrote:Here's the first big one!

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... =22&t=5735

:clapper:
:shock: That debate seems very well-thought out, mutually respectful and loaded with evidence. On Ratz. Somebody divide by 0 or something? :?
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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