The diminution of quality discourse

[devogue]

I read an article this morning about a proposed (though highly unlikely) replica of the Titanic.

The most interesting part of the article asserted that people today would be "bored to tears" on the Titanic - no wifi, no gadgets, just a well stocked library, a gym full of novelty machines and a plunge pool.

In 1912 there was a time worn way of crossing the ocean. Firstly, the days were planned around meals - in between would involve the writing of letters and catching up on correspondence, plenty of reading (apparently detective stories were all the rage), plenty of promenading, and huge amounts of chat, both serious and frivolous, with travelling companions and strangers. The Titanic, a liner that would supposedly bore the arses of us today, was seen as the epitome of luxury and comfort.

We are the generation that has experienced the shift to the Internet, and the introverted world of mobile phones and similar technology. I must say that the gentle rhythm of life on an old liner crossing the Atlantic sounds like pure bliss. The lack of distraction, the conversations, the sheer amount of opportunity to talk, discuss and dissect ideas. Of course, there were rigid, often stifling conventions and social mores but if your conversational approach and tone were acceptable you were pretty much okay.

These days it's difficult to talk about serious subjects with people. For instance, I'm very interested in the American presidential election. The current media coverage is fantastically in depth but nobody I hang around with cares or knows anything. I have highly educated friends, and highly uneducated friends but everyone just seems to find it all boring. It's almost a social faux pas to discuss politics, religion and the like. Passions only arise when talking about sport, families or fucking conspiracy theories.

I know this sounds very pompous, but I don't care - it's frustrating and it's getting worse.

[devogue]

I should add that in the film Titanic the hero and heroine dance, knock back pints and party on with the plebs - this in and of itself is excellent, good fun all round and totally harmless.

However, the villain is shown at the same time to be "boring" - discussing politics and business in the quiet warmth of the First Class smoking room.

Mindless party and emotional kicks = good
Serious discussion and contemplation = bad

A metaphor for the time in which the film was made?

[JimC]

I can have quite erudite conversations with some of by fellow teachers at school. As most of you know, for my sins, it is a catholic school, albeit on what one could call the liberal wing of the church. Most of them know that I'm an atheist, which they seem to find mildly perplexing but sort of interesting. Anyway, the deputy, also a history teacher of the French revolutionary period was most amused when I quoted a frenchman of that time, Denis Diderot: “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”
And there is a small group of us who discuss the news of the day every morning with some gusto...

[piscator]

For our American readership, might I suggest booking passage on the President Roosevelt? She sails from Hoboken pier every third Saturday and is a bit of a storm magnet. But she has a fine captain named George, and none of the crew will give a shit if you bring aboard 12 steamer trunks full of cannonballs and Chinese fireworks, much less a pair of skis and a folding kayak..

Take care with some of the young ladies in steerage, however. Bob Benchley picked up a wicked case of the crabs the last time we sailed over. Fortunately, the pharmacists of Cherbourg are familiar with the sexual maladies one can contract during 8 days of crossing the Atlantic, and can provide a quick fix before you travel onward across the Continent.

[devogue]

For our American readership, might I suggest booking passage on the President Roosevelt? She sails from Hoboken pier every third Saturday and is a bit of a storm magnet. But she has a fine captain named George, and none of the crew will give a shit if you bring aboard 12 steamer trunks full of cannonballs and Chinese fireworks, much less a pair of skis and a folding kayak..

Take care with some of the young ladies in steerage, however. Bob Benchley picked up a wicked case of the crabs the last time we sailed over. Fortunately, the pharmacists of Cherbourg are familiar with the sexual maladies one can contract during 8 days of crossing the Atlantic, and can provide a quick fix before you travel onward across the Continent.

Excellent!

Proves my point as well. Say the above to 98.2% of the adult population and you will get that exceptionally annoying "you're disturbed" face.

[piscator]

Young man,

Pay no attention to the rabble who offer nothing useful. As far as I know, there are no paintings of critics hanging in the Louvre. There are no statues of critics in the city squares of Paris or Prague or Vienna. They will die as they lived, with little fanfare or attention. I would be surprised if their time on earth will be marked by anything more than a shabby bunch of plastic flowers left at an unattended grave.

Speaking of critics and statues, I remember having lunch with Scott at Michaud's. This was after Zelda's first breakdown and she said many hurtful and destructive things. Perhaps most corrosive, she had told him his cock wasn't big enough to satisfy even the smallest woman. This insult, tossed off in a drunken argument, had burrowed into his head and then began to ricochet and soon became all he could think about.

I took him into the pissoir and gave him a quick inspection, assuring him that he was quite satisfactory. It's often a matter of angle anyway, so I told him to put a pillow under the girl's ass and quit worrying about it.

He remained unconvinced so we walked over to the Louvre and spent some time inspecting the statues. I explained that when you gazed down at your own cock it was somewhat foreshortened. Also it doesnt matter what your cock is in a moment of quiet repose, but what it is capable of becoming. But by this point he had worked himself into a state from which there was no return. He ran off to meet some friends at the Ritz Bar, no doubt sitting there gaily festive on the outside but brooding about his tiny cock on the inside.

I told him the truth in that pissoir. I have not seen a million cocks but I have seen enough to know that his was perfectly normal and enough to satisfy anyone but the most voracious of whores. But Zelda had destroyed his confidence and as far as I know he never had another woman.

[devogue]

I tried that with Ernest but the silly sod shot himself before we got to the WC.

[Rum]

I have a couple of old friends, who sadly I don't see often enough and when we get together we have the sorts of conversations you describe. Strangely enough when I go on a long walk with my daughter in the Lake District or elsewhere we sometimes do too, though I am guilty of going into lecture mode rather too easily on those occasions.

It strikes me that people are embarrassed these days to be thought of as 'serious'. How did that happen?

[Forty Two]

I read an article this morning about a proposed (though highly unlikely) replica of the Titanic.

The most interesting part of the article asserted that people today would be "bored to tears" on the Titanic - no wifi, no gadgets, just a well stocked library, a gym full of novelty machines and a plunge pool.

In 1912 there was a time worn way of crossing the ocean. Firstly, the days were planned around meals - in between would involve the writing of letters and catching up on correspondence, plenty of reading (apparently detective stories were all the rage), plenty of promenading, and huge amounts of chat, both serious and frivolous, with travelling companions and strangers. The Titanic, a liner that would supposedly bore the arses of us today, was seen as the epitome of luxury and comfort.

We are the generation that has experienced the shift to the Internet, and the introverted world of mobile phones and similar technology. I must say that the gentle rhythm of life on an old liner crossing the Atlantic sounds like pure bliss. The lack of distraction, the conversations, the sheer amount of opportunity to talk, discuss and dissect ideas. Of course, there were rigid, often stifling conventions and social mores but if your conversational approach and tone were acceptable you were pretty much okay.

These days it's difficult to talk about serious subjects with people. For instance, I'm very interested in the American presidential election. The current media coverage is fantastically in depth but nobody I hang around with cares or knows anything. I have highly educated friends, and highly uneducated friends but everyone just seems to find it all boring. It's almost a social faux pas to discuss politics, religion and the like. Passions only arise when talking about sport, families or fucking conspiracy theories.

I know this sounds very pompous, but I don't care - it's frustrating and it's getting worse.

Interesting, though, that even with all the internet and other distractions in modern society, the most common activities on cruise ships are eating, drinking, talking, and generally milling about on deck (aka "promenading"). I would have no problem with a Titanic-like ship. Many cruise ships today are much bigger than Titanic, but I've been on cruise ships that are that size and it's great. I also like spending time on the Lido deck, having a small cigar and a cold beer, followed by some quiet reading and such.

I think your point about people not wanting to talk about politics, religion and the like has a couple of features. First, traditionally, those have always been socially taboo topics at mixed parties and social gatherings because people simply take those matters too personally. They get all pissed off if someone holds a political or religious view that is contrary to their own. So, best not to bring up those topics, unless you want some of your group to get all pissy about it. Then there is the other issue of people just being stupid. The average person, with a 100 or so IQ comes across as rather dim, and their political and religious views tend to lack much depth.

[rachelbean]

I find people want to talk politics with me at the pub when they know I'm American, because of everything they hear and see and want to know what I think. And since even conservative people here are pretty much liberals in the states there is rarely too much tension. Avoiding religion and politics is such a boring mode. Of course it's good advice around most families and strangers, but with friends, acquaintances and friendly strangers, especially at the pub, they are generally the best conversations.

If people aren't interested in talking politics though I'm just as happy to talk about films or music. Even better when you find someone who actually reads! While the pub may be mainly filled with relatively dull people looking to get laid, most nights you can still find a couple good conversations. Smoking definitely opens up the opportunities, and being a foreigner helps too since the accent is frequently a conversation starter. Normally I can be very quiet, but a couple drinks and with someone else starting the conversation anything can happen

[Forty Two]

I should probably keep my trap shut, but that profile picture of yours, with the red hat..... well, perfect smile and smoldering eyes. Ahem, err... sorry. Let me get it together here....

It must be really fun being the American over there in Britain. Where are you? Wales? Do you ever find that they sort of have a caricature picture of the US, and you have to sort of give them a better picture of what it's really like over here? Or, do you think they generally have us right?

[rachelbean]

Perfect smile? Hahaha But thank you

It must be really fun being the American over there in Britain. Where are you? Wales? Do you ever find that they sort of have a caricature picture of the US, and you have to sort of give them a better picture of what it's really like over here? Or, do you think they generally have us right?

It really depends on the person. The most typical reaction (particularly when they ask what part of the states I am from) is, "WHY are you HERE? LA is so cool/I always wanted to go there/you are so lucky/I would never move here from there". Often followed by questions about what certain things are like "in America" to which I generally give the "it completely depends on which part of which part of America, but where I grew up <my experience>, however other people would definitely have a very different answer" answer.

Overall people are really positive and friendly, but I do find the more educated or middle class someone is the more likely they are to have a critical view of America in general, probably due to an awareness of politics, foreign policy and a lack of love for the "special relationship" between nations. I've had backhanded compliments from people like that about, "being smart for an American", etc.

Of course the better travelled someone is the more likely they are to be of the opinion that there are both great and shitty parts about America and Americans, like just about everywhere else on earth

[Brian Peacock]

It strikes me that people are embarrassed these days to be thought of as 'serious'. How did that happen?

Fuck off Grandad!

[Rum]

Ironically Loz (who is a FB friend) is a rather more serious young chap than most as it turns out. He posts some thoughtful stuff. Whodathunk it?

[Forty Two]

Perfect smile? Hahaha But thank you

I calls em like I sees em.

But, just in case -- I apologize if you don't want that kind of comment, cuz I'm just some person on the interwebz.

It must be really fun being the American over there in Britain. Where are you? Wales? Do you ever find that they sort of have a caricature picture of the US, and you have to sort of give them a better picture of what it's really like over here? Or, do you think they generally have us right?

It really depends on the person. The most typical reaction (particularly when they ask what part of the states I am from) is, "WHY are you HERE? LA is so cool/I always wanted to go there/you are so lucky/I would never move here from there". Often followed by questions about what certain things are like "in America" to which I generally give the "it completely depends on which part of which part of America, but where I grew up <my experience>, however other people would definitely have a very different answer" answer.

Overall people are really positive and friendly, but I do find the more educated or middle class someone is the more likely they are to have a critical view of America in general, probably due to an awareness of politics, foreign policy and a lack of love for the "special relationship" between nations. I've had backhanded compliments from people like that about, "being smart for an American", etc.

Of course the better travelled someone is the more likely they are to be of the opinion that there are both great and shitty parts about America and Americans, like just about everywhere else on earth

I love traveling, and it's always interesting to get furren reactions. I have some friends who are viewing this year's election with horror. I have a feeling people will think we've gone insane if Trump gets the nomination, or gets elected.