Immigrants make you richer.

[Blind groper]

http://world.time.com/2012/09/20/what-i ... migration/

The above reference, and an article in New Scientist, 29 November 2014, page 10 discuss the effect of immigration on the economy of the country receiving them. The findings include immigrants paying more taxes and receiving less welfare than the long term residents, boosting wages, creating more productive enterprises, and creating extra economic growth.
Even poorly educated and unsophisticated immigrants help, by providing a labour force at the lower levels of the economy, and thus 'promoting' more educated people into better jobs with higher wages.

A study by the University of Oxford was published on the 4 November showing that migrants from other EU countries provided this boost.

Researcher Ian Goldin says that relaxing barriers to immigration will bring economic benefits to the host country.

[Blind groper]

http://www.enpi-info.eu/medportal/news/ ... MISE-study

Not only do migrants bring economic growth to their host country, but the benefit may work both ways. When temporary migrants return to their homes, they bring enterprise and economic growth with them.

[Seth]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

[klr]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

While many immigrants do that, the host country still experiences a net benefit. What's the problem?

[JimC]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

Permanent immigrants would not be doing that to a large extent. Guest workers (like the asians working in the Gulf states), on the other hand, do that to a large degree, but it still seems to work for both parties...

[Seth]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

Permanent immigrants would not be doing that to a large extent. Guest workers (like the asians working in the Gulf states), on the other hand, do that to a large degree, but it still seems to work for both parties...

Horseshit. Permanent immigrants still have families back home and they send billions in "remittances" out of the country, to the point where the feds are investigating Western Union for money laundering.

[Seth]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

While many immigrants do that, the host country still experiences a net benefit. What's the problem?

Does it? I didn't see that factored in. Perhaps I missed it.

[piscator]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

While many immigrants do that, the host country still experiences a net benefit. What's the problem?

Does it? I didn't see that factored in. Perhaps I missed it.

Did they steal that $$?

The market spends money to make money, or to meet its other needs.
For every dollar they earn, they make someone else >$1, or have filled some other market need that the market has determined is worth at least $1(usually both).


Natural citizens buy billions of dollars worth of retail "loss leaders" every year. This has a similar effect: money is lost.
I have a feeling you're somehow less bitter about that.

[Seth]

Unless, of course, they ship billions of dollars out of the country to relatives in their homeland...

While many immigrants do that, the host country still experiences a net benefit. What's the problem?

Does it? I didn't see that factored in. Perhaps I missed it.

Did they steal that $$?

The market spends money to make money, or to meet its other needs.
For every dollar they earn, they make someone else >$1, or have filled some other market need that the market has determined is worth at least $1(usually both).


Natural citizens buy billions of dollars worth of retail "loss leaders" every year. This has a similar effect: money is lost.
I have a feeling you're somehow less bitter about that.

Only if they spend it here, otherwise it's revenue lost to our economy.

[cronus]

They make excellent wage-slaves. Foreigners. Bring wealth in by working for next to nothing, and stashing them ten or twelve to a room in the dingiest places you could imagine. And their womenz better than ours...still think they are women in the traditional sense of the word.

[mistermack]

All that article shows is that you can be an Oxford professor and still be a moron.

He doesn't even understand the basics. He talks as if there is only one kind of immigration, and it's either good or bad.

In fact there are two main types. And they are good for some people, and bad for others.

But firstly, yes, immigration grows the GDP. But is that actually good?
If you have a house, with ten people living in it, and you allow one new person to move in, then is it an advantage that you've raised the GDP of the house by ten percent? It's ten percent more, spread over a population that's ten percent bigger. It's a fucking stupid argument to just say, bigger GDP is better. All you've achieved is an overcrowded house.

Now the two types of immigration. There is controlled immigration, of people with skills that are needed. And there is uncontrolled immigration, of unskilled people who can hardly speak the language.
The first kind is good for the poor, and bad for the rich.
The second kind is good for the rich, and very bad for the poor. It provides a ready stream of cheap labour, and depresses the natural level of the cost of unskilled work.
That's ok for the unskilled immigrant, it's still far more money than they are used to, but it's a disaster for unskilled resident workers. They can't save up, and go home a rich man in a poor country. They are faced with taking jobs that don't even pay the rent on a house.

So if you are rich and skilled, vote for lots of unskilled immigration. If you are poor and unskilled, vote for restricted numbers of highly skilled professionals.

But if you are a politician, any old immigration that you can get away with makes you look good.
The "GDP" will look healthy to the morons, and wage inflation of the masses will be held down.
It's good for your figures, and fuck the poor.

[Blind groper]

I do not think that is what the researchers were saying. They were talking of an increase in wealth for each individual. And yes, they were talking of a net increase, even if the immigrants remit some money to their old country.

[cronus]

Scare mongering to say it would be like North Korea. At some point there is enough people. We are tribal animals. Nothing to do with North Korea - everything to do with avoiding it. There is no need for some compartmental thinking to be the path to anything like that. Many people have a certain 'naive universalist' stance and use the dark art of statistics to defend it.

[mistermack]

I do not think that is what the researchers were saying. They were talking of an increase in wealth for each individual. And yes, they were talking of a net increase, even if the immigrants remit some money to their old country.

Don't talk stupid groper.
If you are poor and unskilled, how does a load of unskilled competition from abroad make you wealthier? Why not use your brain just for once?

[Blind groper]

If you are poor and unskilled, what you need is some guy from wherever (overseas in this case) who is so ambitious that he creates his own business and hires you.