"Upstream Color"

[Audley Strange]

Anyone else seen this I saw this tonight. It's been about four hours and it's stuck with me, I knew it would. Shane Carruth's last movie "Primer" is one of my all time favourites. I could rant about it a lot, perhaps I will one day, however it's been eight or nine years, he had trouble with his second project and so retreated back to the D.I.Y ethic to make "Upstream Color".

Like "Primer" it is a science fiction movie of sorts, but the story as in Primer is about relationship, in the same way that "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" is. This is even more sparse and minimal than "Primer", another odd puzzle box which reveals more with repeated viewings, but even on first watch I was taken with it. I won't spoil anything at all but will say that I found it simultaneously cold dispassionate and voyeuristic and yet with real heart (at one point I actually felt deeply sad, which is an unusual experience for me at a movie) slow moving and yet rapid, with edits leaving you hanging, forcing you to keep up.

I can't say everyone else (or anyone else) seemed as enthusiastic as me, but I can't wait to watch it again.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

OK. Missed my radar but sounds like my kind of thing - both... acquired. WIll let you know what I think.

[Cormac]

I hate when movies make me feel sad or angry. Without catharsis, I carry that feeling with me. And there are enough things that make me sad or angry in real life.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I hate when movies make me feel sad or angry. Without catharsis, I carry that feeling with me. And there are enough things that make me sad or angry in real life.

You'd probably like Transformers 2, in that case - there's no feeling anything in it at all.

[Cormac]

I hate when movies make me feel sad or angry. Without catharsis, I carry that feeling with me. And there are enough things that make me sad or angry in real life.

You'd probably like Transformers 2, in that case - there's no feeling anything in it at all.

What did you expect? They're robots!




I like movies evoking feelings. I just hate to walk out of movie feeling angry or depressed. So, for me, movies that evoke these feeling must provide relief from them at the end.

There is nothing particularly worthy about not doing so, in my opinion.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Ideally, I like films that leave me wanting more and with unanswered questions. I don't mind a little brainless action or comedy from time to time but if all I have to do is watch the thing without using ANY of my own imagination, I get bored pretty quick.

Every loose end tied up at the end (and telegraphed an hour earlier) is just a dull cop-out. Deus ex Machina (what is the plural of that phrase!?) do not happen in real life so it annoys me when they are shoe-horned into films.

Add 2D characters that you simply can't care about to that and you have my idea of my idea of movie hell! Transformers 2, in short.

Give me Lost In Translation anyday - and not just for Scarlett in her underwear...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

OK, Primer was interesting - confusing - but interesting - in fact - more confusing than interesting - but still - definitely - interesting!

It reminded me very much of Aronofsky's Pi: low budget compensated for by innovative technique, a deliberately convoluted plot, plenty of technobabble. But it had more of a human touch to it. The key point was the human interaction between the leads and not the SciFi McGuffins.

I think I liked it - no - I definitely liked it - but I think it is going to take a few days (and probably another viewing) to really assess what I thought of it. I will wait for this one to settle before I try watching Upstream Color - but I am looking forward to what this director can do with a little more cash to throw around.

[Cormac]

Ideally, I like films that leave me wanting more and with unanswered questions. I don't mind a little brainless action or comedy from time to time but if all I have to do is watch the thing without using ANY of my own imagination, I get bored pretty quick.

Every loose end tied up at the end (and telegraphed an hour earlier) is just a dull cop-out. Deus ex Machina (what is the plural of that phrase!?) do not happen in real life so it annoys me when they are shoe-horned into films.

Add 2D characters that you simply can't care about to that and you have my idea of my idea of movie hell! Transformers 2, in short.

Give me Lost In Translation anyday - and not just for Scarlett in her underwear...

I like clever movies. But movies without catharsis, even if via a deus ex machina are almost always a deliberate attempt to create a situation where the audience leave with a sadness or an anger. This is usually because the writer or film-maker thinks that real life doesn't end happily,and "I'm going to give the audience a taste of real life, and this will be my statement of artistic integrity". But to me, this is a failure to understand the root of a story - which is that a transformational event has occurred and the protagonist must respond. The story traces this response. Firstly, for the story to succeed the protagonist must arrive at some level of resolution to the challenge. In life, there isn't always a happy or a bad ending, but a combination of in betweens. This is fone as a resolution. But a resolution of ashes is (mostly) suited to documentaries about genocide.

There are, of course, exceptions, in a way, and Beckett explored this in Waiting for Godot - but even in that, I think it is possible to recognise the classic form.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

The best stories lead us through the transformation and leave us on the cusp of what comes after, allowing our imaginations to continue the story as we see fit.

Tying up too many loose ends into a happy conclusion is stupidly unrealistic and, to me, far less satisfying - I can't help seeing Cinderella and Prince Charming having blazing rows and a divorce a few years down the line!

A story is a journey - but the destination is not the end of the story (and vice versa) - it is ridiculous to pretend that it is. Perhaps I am just a little too old for happy ever after.

[Audley Strange]

You should read about him XC, he's an impressive talent. Also, on closer inspection (if you are into such things) you'll find Primer is not what you think it is at first. I kind of think he's like the cinema equivalent of P.K. Dick.

[Animavore]

Ooh! I loved Primer.

[En_Route]

Anyone else seen this I saw this tonight. It's been about four hours and it's stuck with me, I knew it would. Shane Carruth's last movie "Primer" is one of my all time favourites. I could rant about it a lot, perhaps I will one day, however it's been eight or nine years, he had trouble with his second project and so retreated back to the D.I.Y ethic to make "Upstream Color".

Like "Primer" it is a science fiction movie of sorts, but the story as in Primer is about relationship, in the same way that "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" is. This is even more sparse and minimal than "Primer", another odd puzzle box which reveals more with repeated viewings, but even on first watch I was taken with it. I won't spoil anything at all but will say that I found it simultaneously cold dispassionate and voyeuristic and yet with real heart (at one point I actually felt deeply sad, which is an unusual experience for me at a movie) slow moving and yet rapid, with edits leaving you hanging, forcing you to keep up.

I can't say everyone else (or anyone else) seemed as enthusiastic as me, but I can't wait to watch it again.

Sounds right down my cul-de-sac, so I've ordered Primer. A pox upon the meretricious snare of narrative, say I, to the despair of all around me who even now will be busy devising alternative engagements to avoid my latest cinematic mindfuck.

[Audley Strange]

I like clever movies. But movies without catharsis, even if via a deus ex machina are almost always a deliberate attempt to create a situation where the audience leave with a sadness or an anger. This is usually because the writer or film-maker thinks that real life doesn't end happily,and "I'm going to give the audience a taste of real life, and this will be my statement of artistic integrity". But to me, this is a failure to understand the root of a story - which is that a transformational event has occurred and the protagonist must respond. The story traces this response. Firstly, for the story to succeed the protagonist must arrive at some level of resolution to the challenge. In life, there isn't always a happy or a bad ending, but a combination of in betweens. This is fone as a resolution. But a resolution of ashes is (mostly) suited to documentaries about genocide.

There are, of course, exceptions, in a way, and Beckett explored this in Waiting for Godot - but even in that, I think it is possible to recognise the classic form.

They are on the face of it, straightforward narratives with rough edges, which upon further analysis change that narrative. Both "Primer" and "Upstream Color" are difficult to talk about without discussing the concepts and I really don't want to give anything away, but I really want people to give this guy their money, he made these movies, not just directed, but edited, shot, scripted, storyboarded and even acted in, he did almost everything including self financing and distribution. Such will is impressive, that he pulled off not something that are just adequate but novel and inventive, with the budgets he's working with, should be considered these days the same kind of triumph as Landing on the Moon was... imo.

Wow... I'm gushing.

[Cormac]

I like clever movies. But movies without catharsis, even if via a deus ex machina are almost always a deliberate attempt to create a situation where the audience leave with a sadness or an anger. This is usually because the writer or film-maker thinks that real life doesn't end happily,and "I'm going to give the audience a taste of real life, and this will be my statement of artistic integrity". But to me, this is a failure to understand the root of a story - which is that a transformational event has occurred and the protagonist must respond. The story traces this response. Firstly, for the story to succeed the protagonist must arrive at some level of resolution to the challenge. In life, there isn't always a happy or a bad ending, but a combination of in betweens. This is fone as a resolution. But a resolution of ashes is (mostly) suited to documentaries about genocide.

There are, of course, exceptions, in a way, and Beckett explored this in Waiting for Godot - but even in that, I think it is possible to recognise the classic form.

They are on the face of it, straightforward narratives with rough edges, which upon further analysis change that narrative. Both "Primer" and "Upstream Color" are difficult to talk about without discussing the concepts and I really don't want to give anything away, but I really want people to give this guy their money, he made these movies, not just directed, but edited, shot, scripted, storyboarded and even acted in, he did almost everything including self financing and distribution. Such will is impressive, that he pulled off not something that are just adequate but novel and inventive, with the budgets he's working with, should be considered these days the same kind of triumph as Landing on the Moon was... imo.

Wow... I'm gushing.

Sounds like these would be worth watching - and I will if I get a chance.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

He did the music too. Very much like the early David Lynch.