Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy charges

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Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy charges

Post by klr » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:38 pm

More at the link ...

http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2012/04/ ... acing.html
Leading Indian Rationalist facing blasphemy charges over miracle clash with Catholic Church

Sanal Edamaruku, President of the India-based organisation Rationalist International, is facing charges of blasphemy after he exposed a "miracle" involving a crucifix statue in the Vile Parle area of Mumbai.

On 10 March, Edamuruku, who is well-known in India for his debunking of supposed miracles and the abilities claimed by religious gurus (see this 2008 piece for New Humanist), was invited by the TV-9 channel to visit the Church of Our Lady of Velankanni in Vile Parle, where water had begun dripping from the feet of a statue of the crucified Christ. Worshippers claimed that this was "holy water", and the crowds flocked to the church to collect the miraculous liquid in containers.

Upon inspection, Edamuruku was able to reveal that the source of the "miracle" was a leaking drainage system, the water from which was being sucked up and ejected through the nail holes of the crucifix via a capillary action. You can see a video of his investigation here:

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Edamuruku's debunking of the leaking crucifix angered local religious leaders, who took to the airwaves to denounce his investigation. Father Augustine Palett, pastor of the Church of Our Lady Velankanni, told the Catholic press agency AsiaNews that Edamurku's claims that the Church had created the "miracle" and was exploiting believers to make money were false:

"Something has happened here that is beyond our understanding and that has gathered together Hindus, Muslims and Christians, united in prayer. Sanal Edamaruku's statements are unwarranted, unfounded and false. The Church does not try to make money from people's devotion. Its institutions relentlessly serve poor and marginalized, without any discrimination of caste or creed, to build this nation."

Edamuruku was also denounced by Msgr. Agnelo Gracias, the Auxiliary Bishop of Mumbai, who argued that the Catholic Church always tries to explain "miracles" scientifically:

"The Church is always cautious in attributing supernatural causes to out of the ordinary phenomena. Whenever possible, it always tries to find 'scientific' explanations for similar events. It does not pay great attention to things like this, although it accepts the possibility that God can intervene in human life in 'extraordinary' ways: what we call 'miracles'."
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by tattuchu » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:42 pm

:sigh: We're doomed. Our species is doomed. :sigh:
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But those letters are not silent.

They're just waiting their turn.

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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Jason » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:25 pm

Next up: Leaking gas mains proven to be cause of divine visions (and brain damage).

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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Azathoth » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:10 pm

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Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes.

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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by maiforpeace » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:05 am

Blasphemy charges? Is there an actual punishment for this?
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:55 am

maiforpeace wrote:Blasphemy charges? Is there an actual punishment for this?
Used to be death in the UK. These days that is commuted to a stern finger-wagging and a slow shake of the head by a bishop. :tea:
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Hermit » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:31 am

Father Augustine Palett, pastor of the Church of Our Lady Velankanni, told the Catholic press agency AsiaNews: "Something has happened here that is beyond our understanding and that has gathered together Hindus, Muslims and Christians, united in prayer. Sanal Edamaruku's statements are unwarranted, unfounded and false. The Church does not try to make money from people's devotion. Its institutions relentlessly serve poor and marginalized..."

How can you not trust such an honest man? Oh, wait,

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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by mistermack » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:14 pm

Can't see how they could make blasphemy stick.
Not unless this was officially declared a miracle. Which I hope they do, that would be highly amusing.

But it's not blasphemy to scientifically explain something that isn't officially declared a miracle. Especially as the church CLAIMS to do the same thing themselves.
It would take some pretty suspect court proceedings to convict. I don't know how good Indian justice is though.
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by maiforpeace » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:23 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
maiforpeace wrote:Blasphemy charges? Is there an actual punishment for this?
Used to be death in the UK. These days that is commuted to a stern finger-wagging and a slow shake of the head by a bishop. :tea:
If this is all the punishment there is, then who cares?
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Robert_S » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:01 pm

maiforpeace wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
maiforpeace wrote:Blasphemy charges? Is there an actual punishment for this?
Used to be death in the UK. These days that is commuted to a stern finger-wagging and a slow shake of the head by a bishop. :tea:
If this is all the punishment there is, then who cares?
Just a law they can keep on the books and pull out in full force when the political climate is just so...
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Svartalf » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:05 pm

mistermack wrote:Can't see how they could make blasphemy stick.
Not unless this was officially declared a miracle. Which I hope they do, that would be highly amusing.

But it's not blasphemy to scientifically explain something that isn't officially declared a miracle. Especially as the church CLAIMS to do the same thing themselves.
It would take some pretty suspect court proceedings to convict. I don't know how good Indian justice is though.
It's easy... in many countries, blasphemy is 'offending the dominant religion'... but in India it's 'offending any clergy whatever'... if any cleric says this is blasphemy, then it sticks.
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by amused » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:17 am

This is why *any* blasphemy law is dangerous. It can be trotted out and used to intimidate at any time.

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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by Bella Fortuna » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:49 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
maiforpeace wrote:Blasphemy charges? Is there an actual punishment for this?
Used to be death in the UK. These days that is commuted to a stern finger-wagging and a slow shake of the head by a bishop. :tea:
Yes, but..... which..... head..... :?
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by JimC » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:38 am

Svartalf wrote:
mistermack wrote:Can't see how they could make blasphemy stick.
Not unless this was officially declared a miracle. Which I hope they do, that would be highly amusing.

But it's not blasphemy to scientifically explain something that isn't officially declared a miracle. Especially as the church CLAIMS to do the same thing themselves.
It would take some pretty suspect court proceedings to convict. I don't know how good Indian justice is though.
It's easy... in many countries, blasphemy is 'offending the dominant religion'... but in India it's 'offending any clergy whatever'... if any cleric says this is blasphemy, then it sticks.
The irony is deep...

Looked at in the cold light of day, the practice of any religion is a blasphemy against the others...

The get-out clause is "woo-mongers stick together"

Atheism is apparently the evil exception...
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Re: Indian Rationalist debunks miracle, faces blasphemy char

Post by MiM » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:42 pm

Sanal Edamaruku lives in exile in Finland now, because of the charges he might face in India. I'm just back from a local freethinkers meeting, where he gave a two hour speech on the superstition and woo peddling in India, and how the Indian rationalist society fights it. Very interesting guy, very interesting country, very bad cattlicks,that forced him to leave India :lay:. It's not really blasphemy they try to nail him on, but some kind of crazy related law. I hope to post a YouTube link from the meeting here later, so you can here the explanation in his own words.

BTW, it's the same guy as here http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... ku#p418409 who asked the Guru to kill him on live TV. Was interesting to here him talk about that too. :{D
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