Offending a theist

[nellikin]

So - there's a Muslim at uni. He's a lovely, soft-spoken guy who claims to be more of a scientist than a theist, though he is devout. He would never try to start a religious discussion but is thrilled if I mention the topic (he has hope that he'll convince me). His logic is highly fallible (and when I counter with logical arguments he brushes me off and tries to move onto the next topic). Still, I do think he is a good person and wouldn't purposefully harm another being.

We were talking about Islam yesterday and I was asking him about his views on Mohammad. He believes god revealed his truth to Mohammad and that since then it has been recorded and recited truthfully in entirety and unaltered form. No surprises there. He then asked me my views on Mohammad. I said - "you don't want to know", to which he said "please tell me". I replied that he would be offended but he insisted on wanting to know my views on Mohammad. Then I told him I thought Mohammad was schizophrenic. The poor guy was - surprise surprise - highly offended. It is completely incomprehensible to him that someone could be of such an opinion. I could never lie in such a situation, but I do feel bad at offending him. Should I have bitten my tongue?

[Randydeluxe]

If it's not a possibility that the person you're speaking to will harm someone, harm himself, or encourage others to do harm, then honesty is always the best policy.

[Trolldor]

He got what he asked for.

[Cunt]

So - there's a Muslim at uni. He's a lovely, soft-spoken guy who claims to be more of a scientist than a theist, though he is devout. He would never try to start a religious discussion but is thrilled if I mention the topic (he has hope that he'll convince me). His logic is highly fallible (and when I counter with logical arguments he brushes me off and tries to move onto the next topic). Still, I do think he is a good person and wouldn't purposefully harm another being.

We were talking about Islam yesterday and I was asking him about his views on Mohammad. He believes god revealed his truth to Mohammad and that since then it has been recorded and recited truthfully in entirety and unaltered form. No surprises there. He then asked me my views on Mohammad. I said - "you don't want to know", to which he said "please tell me". I replied that he would be offended but he insisted on wanting to know my views on Mohammad. Then I told him I thought Mohammad was schizophrenic. The poor guy was - surprise surprise - highly offended. It is completely incomprehensible to him that someone could be of such an opinion. I could never lie in such a situation, but I do feel bad at offending him. Should I have bitten my tongue?

I think there is little chance for honest friendship if you don't honestly be you.

[Rum]

You did the right thing - and you may well be right too abut what was wrong with the guy too.

[Robert_S]

So - there's a Muslim at uni. He's a lovely, soft-spoken guy who claims to be more of a scientist than a theist, though he is devout. He would never try to start a religious discussion but is thrilled if I mention the topic (he has hope that he'll convince me). His logic is highly fallible (and when I counter with logical arguments he brushes me off and tries to move onto the next topic). Still, I do think he is a good person and wouldn't purposefully harm another being.

We were talking about Islam yesterday and I was asking him about his views on Mohammad. He believes god revealed his truth to Mohammad and that since then it has been recorded and recited truthfully in entirety and unaltered form. No surprises there. He then asked me my views on Mohammad. I said - "you don't want to know", to which he said "please tell me". I replied that he would be offended but he insisted on wanting to know my views on Mohammad. Then I told him I thought Mohammad was schizophrenic. The poor guy was - surprise surprise - highly offended. It is completely incomprehensible to him that someone could be of such an opinion. I could never lie in such a situation, but I do feel bad at offending him. Should I have bitten my tongue?

I would almost take offence at his taking offence. He asked you for your opinion and you warned him, he asked again after being warned... Now you have opened his eyes a little. You may well have opened his eyes to opinions that he may never have thought thinkable, naturally he's a little shook up. I was brought up among so many Christians that I thought it was impossible to be an atheist in the US until about the 5th grade.

[Feck]

Why is it that even the normally pleasant mild sensible (on other subjects) theists are offended when we disagree?

I think that secretly they all suspect they are wrong ,or know that at least some of what they profess belief in is rubbish.
It seems as if they need other people to confirm their delusions and evangelism is the BEST for them ...their beliefs must be true and powerful as they have converted an unbeliever

If caught in a conversation with a theist when I'm in a good mood I find --"That's not actually True ,is it ?" said in a patronising manner like you would to a child making up stories is quite satisfying and often halts the conversation .If they don't get the message then, Tough it's their own fault and they are going to be a little more than offended at the rest of the conversation .

[Pappa]

He then asked me my views on Mohammad. I said - "you don't want to know", to which he said "please tell me". I replied that he would be offended but he insisted on wanting to know my views on Mohammad. Then I told him I thought Mohammad was schizophrenic. The poor guy was - surprise surprise - highly offended. It is completely incomprehensible to him that someone could be of such an opinion. I could never lie in such a situation, but I do feel bad at offending him. Should I have bitten my tongue?

It's not like you didn't give him fair warning. Maybe it's the first time he's heard anything so shocking (to him). Either he'll ignore it, or it will become a tiny doubt at the back of his mind that may be added to by other doubts one day.

I think you did the right thing. Hopefully, he won't treat you differently and will perhaps even be happy to discuss things with you again once he gets over the shock.

[Animavore]

Wow Such restraint.

I would've called him a tyrannical, warmongering, paedophilac pirate with epilepsy.

[The Dawktor]

You did the right thing- although I would have emphasised the paedoplile bit a bit more!

[hiyymer]

So - there's a Muslim at uni. He's a lovely, soft-spoken guy who claims to be more of a scientist than a theist, though he is devout. He would never try to start a religious discussion but is thrilled if I mention the topic (he has hope that he'll convince me). His logic is highly fallible (and when I counter with logical arguments he brushes me off and tries to move onto the next topic). Still, I do think he is a good person and wouldn't purposefully harm another being.

We were talking about Islam yesterday and I was asking him about his views on Mohammad. He believes god revealed his truth to Mohammad and that since then it has been recorded and recited truthfully in entirety and unaltered form. No surprises there. He then asked me my views on Mohammad. I said - "you don't want to know", to which he said "please tell me". I replied that he would be offended but he insisted on wanting to know my views on Mohammad. Then I told him I thought Mohammad was schizophrenic. The poor guy was - surprise surprise - highly offended. It is completely incomprehensible to him that someone could be of such an opinion. I could never lie in such a situation, but I do feel bad at offending him. Should I have bitten my tongue?

Why schizophrenic?

[cowiz]

So - there's a Muslim at uni. He's a lovely, soft-spoken guy who claims to be more of a scientist than a theist, though he is devout. He would never try to start a religious discussion but is thrilled if I mention the topic (he has hope that he'll convince me). His logic is highly fallible (and when I counter with logical arguments he brushes me off and tries to move onto the next topic). Still, I do think he is a good person and wouldn't purposefully harm another being.

We were talking about Islam yesterday and I was asking him about his views on Mohammad. He believes god revealed his truth to Mohammad and that since then it has been recorded and recited truthfully in entirety and unaltered form. No surprises there. He then asked me my views on Mohammad. I said - "you don't want to know", to which he said "please tell me". I replied that he would be offended but he insisted on wanting to know my views on Mohammad. Then I told him I thought Mohammad was schizophrenic. The poor guy was - surprise surprise - highly offended. It is completely incomprehensible to him that someone could be of such an opinion. I could never lie in such a situation, but I do feel bad at offending him. Should I have bitten my tongue?

If you see any low flying airplanes, I suggest you duck.

[nellikin]

In the age of modern medicine, people who hear voices, have visions and claim to be visited by god (or other spirits) are diagnosed with schizophrenia and treated for it. Mohammad had these experiences, as well as head-aches and "fits" (I believe) from the intensity of his visions. I guess there is an ever-so-slight chance that it was the archangel Gabriel visiting him, but it seems highly probable that he was just another schizophrenic like many millions of others out there...

[Lion IRC]

There’s this atheist I know who is nice and pleasant and never starts a religious discussion with me but is always an enthusiastic debater if I ever mention the topic. His logic is highly fallible and he always brushes me off with the usual “non-stamp collector”, zero onus of proof, “atheism isn’t a religion” stuff whenever he can’t handle the logical arguments I counter him with. The other day he said to me he really, really really wanted to know what I thought about a book by that prominent French New Atheist “Michel Christopher Dawkmyers”.
I said I didn’t think highly of it and found it to be full of errors in logic and fact. When he pressed me even more I said I would not tell him any more unless he agreed not to think I was attacking him by proxy. After he assured me it was OK and I completely dissected all of the strawmen and faulty atheology in the book, he flew into a blind rage and started calling me every expletive ad hominem he could think of and abused the church, the clergy, Jesus, Mother Theresa, Creationists and anyone else on earth who hadn’t read New Scientist. He told me he would never speak to me again and that I was banned from ever visiting him again.

Should I have bitten my tongue?

Lion (IRC)

[cowiz]

There’s this atheist I know who is nice and pleasant and never starts a religious discussion with me but is always an enthusiastic debater if I ever mention the topic. His logic is highly fallible and he always brushes me off with the usual “non-stamp collector”, zero onus of proof, “atheism isn’t a religion” stuff whenever he can’t handle the logical arguments I counter him with. The other day he said to me he really, really really wanted to know what I thought about a book by that prominent French New Atheist “Michel Christopher Dawkmyers”.
I said I didn’t think highly of it and found it to be full of errors in logic and fact. When he pressed me even more I said I would not tell him any more unless he agreed not to think I was attacking him by proxy. After he assured me it was OK and I completely dissected all of the strawmen and faulty atheology in the book, he flew into a blind rage and started calling me every expletive ad hominem he could think of and abused the church, the clergy, Jesus, Mother Theresa, Creationists and anyone else on earth who hadn’t read New Scientist. He told me he would never speak to me again and that I was banned from ever visiting him again.

Should I have bitten my tongue?

Lion (IRC)