How Gravity Works

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Farsight
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How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Sat May 15, 2010 3:01 pm

WHAT EINSTEIN SAID

People say the speed of light is constant, and Einstein said it. But that’s not entirely true. Yes, Einstein started with this as a postulate in 1905, but in 1911 he wrote On the Influence of Gravitation on the Propagation of Light, where we can see his ideas evolving. He gives the expression c = c0 (1 + Φ/c²), which is c varying with gravitational potential. Then in 1912 he said it again when he wrote "On the other hand I am of the view that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light can be maintained only insofar as one restricts oneself to spatio-temporal regions of constant gravitational potential". He repeated this in 1913 when he said this: "I arrived at the result that the velocity of light is not to be regarded as independent of the gravitational potential. Thus the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is incompatible with the equivalence hypothesis".

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Wikipedia commons public domain image, Solvay 1911 crop uploaded by Fastfission

This wasn’t just some early thought that he later discarded, because there it is again in 1915 when he says " the writer of these lines is of the opinion that the theory of relativity is still in need of generalization, in the sense that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is to be abandoned." That’s on page 259 of Doc 21, sorry, I’m not sure what the original paper is called. He says it again in late 1915, on page 150 of Doc 30, within The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity. Einstein says "the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo must be modified.". He spells it out in section 22 of the 1916 book Relativity: The Special and General Theory where he says this:

"In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position. Now we might think that as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot claim an unlimited domain of validity; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g. of light)".

People tend to see the word velocity in the translations without seeing the context and without noticing that he’s repeatedly referring to “the principle”. They just don’t see the significance of “laid in the dust”, and they skip over his reference to "one of the two fundamental assumptions". They just don’t and won’t see that he's talking about the SR postulate, which is the constant speed of light. Some will even huff and puff and cry “out of context” and “cherry picking” to dismiss what Einstein actually said. They refuse to accept that Einstein didn't speak English in 1916, and that what he actually said was die Ausbreitungsgeschwindigkeit des Lichtes mit dem Orte variiert. I’ve got the original German version, and I got a German friend and an Austrian friend to translate it for me. It translates into the speed of light varies with the locality. The word “velocity” in the 1920 Methuen translation was the common usage, as in “high velocity bullet”, not the vector quantity that combines speed and direction. He was saying the speed varies with position, hence the reference to the postulate, and hence it causes curvilinear motion. It causes the light to follow a curved path. like a car veers when the near-side wheels encounter mud at the side of the road.
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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Sat May 15, 2010 3:01 pm

THE MODERN INTERPRETATION

People often react badly this, like creationists confronted with strata and fossils and carbon dating. Einstein talking about the variable speed of light does not fit with the relativity they've been taught. They cannot conceive that the “modern interpretation” is different to Einstein's relativity, as described by Peter M Brown’s Einstein’s Gravitational Field. People swear that Einstein told us about curved spacetime, but when you read The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity it's just not there. Yes, he talks about geometry and curvature and space-time, but he's giving the equations of motion, through space. He doesn't talk about "motion through spacetime" like people do these days. Surely everybody knows you can't move through spacetime, it's just the mathematical space where we plot our lines. With the time dimension included, you can’t move through it. Some will scoff, and say of course, we all know that but it isn’t true. See http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm where you can read this:

“Some of the most famous physicists in the world are not telling the truth about one of the most taken for granted concepts in scientific history. They are not telling us how they can come up with their fanciful time travel theories (wormholes, advanced and retarded waves travelling in spacetime, etc...) using a model of the universe that precludes the possibility of motion. Nothing can move in spacetime or in a time dimension-axis by definition. This is because motion in time is self-referential.”

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Wikipedia commons GNUFDL image by Marc Goossens, see: file EPS spacetime Weylspace

There's other things that people don’t know. Such as how Einstein was still derided by many theoreticians even in 1923. You can see a reference to this on page 53 of Graham Farmelo's Dirac biography The Strangest Man:

"At that time, Cunningham and Eddington were streets ahead of the majority of their Cambridge colleagues, who dismissed Einstein's work, ignored it, or denied its significance".

Many people don't know that despite the media accolades and public adulation, Einstein drifted out of the mainstream from 1927 when he fell out with Bohr and others over the Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics. They don't know that General Relativity was a "cottage industry" until the nineteen sixties, when the Golden Age changed it significantly:

"The Golden Age of General Relativity is the period roughly from 1960 to 1975 during which the study of general relativity, which had previously been regarded as something of a curiosity, entered the mainstream of theoretical physics. During this period, many of the concepts and terms which continue to inspire the imagination of gravitation researchers (and members of the general public) were introduced, including black holes and 'gravitational singularity'. At the same time, in closely related development, the study of physical cosmology entered the mainstream and the Big Bang became well established... A number of simultaneous paradigm shifts characterize the Golden Age of general relativity. First and foremost, the Big Bang became the canonical cosmological model. Other paradigm shifts included a growing appreciation of the: Role of curvature in general relativity..."

Nor do most people know that in 1949 Einstein and Godel worked out that time is cofounded with motion through space, not with space. It's there in A World without Time: The Forgotten Legacy of Godel and Einstein by Palle Yourgrau:

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Basic books cover image reproduced with permission, see http://www.perseusbooksgroup.com/basic/ ... 0465092942

But perhaps the signal most important thing most people don't know, is that whilst aether is a taboo word which is sneered at by people who consider themselves to be mainstream, Einstein's gave his Leyden address in 1920. And the title is Ether and the theory of relativity. There's Einstein, talking about space and calling it an aether:

"Mach’s idea finds its full development in the ether of the general theory of relativity. According to this theory the metrical qualities of the continuum of space-time differ in the environment of different points of space-time, and are partly conditioned by the matter existing outside of the territory under consideration. This space-time variability of the reciprocal relations of the standards of space and time, or, perhaps, the recognition of the fact that ‘empty space’ in its physical relation is neither homogeneous nor isotropic, compelling us to describe its state by ten functions (the gravitation potentials gμν), has, I think, finally disposed of the view that space is physically empty".

All in all it adds up to some huge differences, and some total surprises. It means relativity has always been the Cinderella of modern physics, and despite his vast reputation, Einstein was hardly in the mainstream at all. His relativity wasn’t mainstream in his time, and it isn’t now. It's been airbrushed out of history, so you don't know about it, and pointing this out results in outrage and ad-hominem abuse. It's really surprising, particularly it's all rather similar to the way Newton described it in Opticks:

”Doth not this aethereal medium in passing out of water, glass, crystal, and other compact and dense bodies in empty spaces, grow denser and denser by degrees, and by that means refract the rays of light not in a point, but by bending them gradually in curve lines? ...Is not this medium much rarer within the dense bodies of the Sun, stars, planets and comets, than in the empty celestial space between them? And in passing from them to great distances, doth it not grow denser and denser perpetually, and thereby cause the gravity of those great bodies towards one another, and of their parts towards the bodies; every body endeavouring to go from the denser parts of the medium towards the rarer?"
queries 20 & 21


The language is different, but the underlying concept is the same. The energy tied up as the matter of a planet "conditions" the surrounding space to create a non-constant gμν along with a gradient in c which causes curvilinear motion. To many people this is unacceptable, because it isn't what they've been taught. It doesn't matter that it comes from Einstein and Newton and is supported by experimental evidence, they refuse to believe it, and refuse to let anybody talk about it. I don't mind people playing down the way Newton was big on Intelligent Design, because things were different then. But I will not have people dismissing Newton, the father of modern science, the man who said Are not gross bodies convertible into one another? and so anticipated E=mc², as an alchemist.

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Wikipedia commons public domain image, Kneller portrait uploaded by Luestling reshaded by Thomas Gun
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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Sat May 15, 2010 3:01 pm

THE POWER OF GROUPTHINK

People suffer so much conviction about all this that they don't just dismiss Einstein and Newton, and they even dismiss scientific evidence, just like YEC groupies. Show them two parallel-mirror light clocks at different gravitational locations, and they will refuse to believe what they see. You can employ high-powered telescopes and put the two light clocks up on a split screen, and people will still deny the evidence that’s there in plain view. They'll talk about coordinate speed and time dilation and spacetime curvature, anything to deny the bleeding obvious: in a place where the gravitational potential is lower, the light goes slower.

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Wikipedia commons CCASA 3.0 image by AllenMcC, see file: GravityPotential

It’s backed up by evidence and logic that is so crushingly obvious that it’s scarey how people just don’t get it. We define our time using the motion of electromagnetic waves, essentially light in the wider sense:

“Under the International System of Units, the second is currently defined as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom...”

Check out the NIST caesium fountain clock. It employs the hyperfine transition, which is an electromagnetic "spin flip" change to one of the atom's electrons. As a result a microwave photon is emitted with a given "frequency". But imagine you're the detector. You sit there counting the arriving microwave peaks, and when you get to 9,192,631,770 you tick off a second. Since frequency is measured in Hertz which is cycles per second, you haven't actually measured the frequency, the frequency is 9,192,631,770 by definition. So if electromagnetic phenomena proceed at a reduced rate, the second is bigger. In other words, if the light moves slower, the second is bigger, and you use it to measure the speed of light! The metre isn't affected because provided you avoid the radial length contraction, the slower light and the bigger second cancel each other out.

The fact is that clocks clock up motion, not time. When atomic clocks or light clocks "run slow" in a region of low gravitational potential, they do this because the speed of light at that location is less than it is up in space. That’s why we have the GPS clock adjustment, see the wikipedia entry for GPS and relativity. A GPS clock is an atomic clock that employs microwaves. The clock runs slower because the light moves slower. This is why the Shapiro delay is called what it is. It’s a delay, the light moves slower when it passes the limb of the sun. And this doesn’t just affect light. It affects everything. It affects electromagnetic things like electrons, because of what pair production is showing us: electrons are literally made from light:

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Wikipedia commons CCASA 3.0 image originally by David Horman, see file: Pairproduction.

Electron spin isn’t “intrinsic”, nor is the magnetic dipole moment. There’s something going round and round in there, and “it’s not classical” is about as useful as “it surpasseth all human understanding”. Don’t buy it. The Einstein de-Haas effect proves that the spin is classical. It's in two dimensions, that’s all. And quarks notwithstanding, the same principle applies to protons, because you can conduct low-energy proton-antiproton annihilation and get two neutral pions which decay in a femtosecond into gamma photons. It applies to neutrons too, because of the evidence of beta decay. A free neutron decays into a proton, an electron, and an antineutrino in about fifteen minutes. So it isn’t just that light moves slower, all atomic processes run slower, and all other processes. You are made of electrons, and protons, and neutrons, and so are your rulers and clocks. When you see gravitational time dilation, it means your clock is moving slower. It’s like you’ve plunged a mechanical clock into an oil-bath. The viscosity makes the cogs and gears move slower. Only you’re like a clockwork man, and you’ve jumped in after it. So you don’t notice it locally.

All you have to do is think and you can see that this is how it is. Einstein said it, the evidence says it. That means the physics you’ve been taught that says the speed of light is constant is wrong. For example, read Is The Speed of Light Constant? on the Baez website, and look at the section on General Relativity. You see the chapter 22 quote again along with the comment: “Since Einstein talks of velocity (a vector quantity: speed with direction) rather than speed alone, it is not clear that he meant the speed will change, but the reference to special relativity suggests that he did mean so. This interpretation is perfectly valid and makes good physical sense, but a more modern interpretation is that the speed of light is constant in general relativity.” Lower down the article says “ Finally, we come to the conclusion that the speed of light is not only observed to be constant; in the light of well tested theories of physics, it does not even make any sense to say that it varies.”

The article says Einstein’s variable speed of light makes sense, and doesn’t make sense. It contradicts the evidence, and it even contradicts itself. But people swallow this stuff, along with time travel and parallel worlds and tiny vibrating strings. String theory predicts nothing, it explains nothing, there's no supporting evidence, and it's all shielded by inscrutable mathematics that is far too complicated for you mere mortals to understand. It's abstract speculation, and it crowds out the good stuff, stuff like New varying speed of light theories that you don't get to hear about.
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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Sat May 15, 2010 3:02 pm

HOW GRAVITY WORKS

You probably think of gravity as “curved spacetime”, but that's the effect, not the cause. Curved spacetime is just curvilinear motion, and to see the cause you have to take a derivative of that curved spacetime. What you get is a gradient. It’s a gμν gradient, essentially a gradient in the properties of space. And this gradient in space is caused in turn by the central energy locked up in the matter of the planet or star that “conditions” the surrounding space. It’s all to do with stress-energy and pressure, and the best way to conceptualize it is to start with an old favourite.

Think about the cannonball in the rubber sheet. The cannonball is heavy, and it makes a depression that will deflect a rolling marble, or even cause the marble to circle like an orbit. It’s a nice analogy, but it’s wrong. It’s wrong because it relies on gravity to pull the cannonball down in the first place. It’s circular. It uses gravity to give you a picture of gravity.

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Wikipedia commons public domain image by BenRG

To get a better analogy, imagine you’re standing underneath the rubber sheet. Grab hold of the rubber around the cannonball and pull it down to give yourself some leeway. Now tie a knot underneath the cannonball, get rid of the cannonball, and let go. Now we’ve got a flat rubber sheet with a knot in it. The knot is a stress configuration, and surrounding it is tension. The tension gradually reduces as you move away from the knot, so if you could measure it, you would measure a radial gradient. But measuring it is trickier than you think. Because in this analogy we can’t use a marble. This rubber sheet represents the world, there’s no stepping outside of it. Our “marble” has to be within the sheet, and a part of it. What we need is a ripple. A photon will do, because a photon is a transverse wave, also known as a shear wave. In mechanics a shear wave travels at a speed determined by the stiffness and density of the medium: v = √(G/ρ). The G here is the shear modulus of elasticity, to do with rigidity. The ρ is the density. The equation says a shear wave travels faster if the material gets stiffer, and slower if the density increases. You can’t directly apply material concepts to space, but in electrodynamics the equation is somewhat similar: c = √(1/ε0μ0). Here ε0 is electric permittivity and μ0 is magnetic permeability. People don't quite understand these terms because they don't understand the electromagnetic field. They forget about the dualism of Jefimenko's equations, and about Minkowski's wrench, which is two pages from the end of Space and Time:

"Then in the description of the field produced by the electron we see that the separation of the field into electric and magnetic force is a relative one with regard to the underlying time axis; the most perspicuous way of describing the two forces together is on a certain analogy with the wrench in mechanics, though the analogy is not complete".

A moving electric field doesn't generate a magnetic field, it is a magnetic field, because Minkowski's wrench is referring to a screw mechanism. This goes back to Maxwell’s On Physical Lines of Force see wikipedia page 53 and there it is. Find a drill bit or reamer, grip it in your right hand, and put your left thumb on the bottom of it, and push upwards. It turns, just like the right-hand rule. That's because the electric field is in essence a "twist field", and the magnetic field is a "turn field" view of the self-same thing. Permittivity is telling you the twistability of space, and permeability is telling you how good it is at making things turn. Hence they are similar to stiffness and density, and the photon is similar to a ripple in a rubber sheet. But for space, speed doesn’t increase as we approach our central stress. Instead it reduces. It reduces because the pressure is outward rather than inward. The energy conditions the surrounding space to create a pressure gradient rather than a tension gradient. And of course it's in three dimensions, so instead of thinking of a rubber sheet stretched over a frame, we need to think of space as being like a ghostly transparent rubbery jelly squeezed into a glass box. When you insert a hypodermic needle into the centre and inject more jelly, you create a pressure gradient in the surrounding jelly. You've essentially added energy, the result is a pressure gradient, and that results in gravity.

As to how it works in the real world, it's to do with vacuum impedance, which is Z0 = √(μ00). Impedance is like resistance, but for alternating current rather than direct current:

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Wikipedia commons GNU FDL image by Jacobsk, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wisselstroom.png

You might wonder why alternating current is important here, but it's very simple. That's what a light wave is:

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Wikipedia commons GNU FDL image by Heron, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Light-wave.svg

There's an electromagnetic field variation, first one way, then the other, and you just can't have this field variation without some form of current. There’s no charge in there, but it really is current, like displacement current. But because a photon conveys energy in a three-dimensional space, and the dimensionality of energy is pressure x volume, it's better to think of a photon in terms of a pressure pulse, shaped something like a lemon. Think of it as a "pulse of spacewarp", where the sinusoidal waveform is telling you the twist and tracing a slope. It grows to a maximum a quarter of the way along the lemon, goes to zero half way along, increases to a negative maximum three-quarters of the way along, and then goes back to zero. But it's still a wave, and its rate of propagation is determined by impedance, because impedance is describing "the strength of space". If space is stronger, and you’re a photon, it's harder to twist and it turns you more easily. Impedance increases as we approach the central matter/energy stress, the photon is a quantum of alternating current, a higher vacuum impedance equates to more resistance, and that results in a lower velocity, hence a lower c because c = √(1/ε0μ0).

Hence when a photon passes a massive body, it's travelling through inhomogeneous vacuum where there's a gradient in c across the photon wave-front. Hence it veers towards the body a little. What we’re seeing is refraction. It’s not quite the same as refraction through a glass block, but it’s similar. It’s so very similar that when we see it through our telescopes, we call it gravitational lensing:

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Wikipedia commons public domain image, NASA/ESA, uploaded by Ladsgroup

Here’s the crucial point: our real world is like ghostly transparent block of rubber containing pulses of stress, some of which are trapped in circular paths and are called matter. And we are made of this ghostly, intangible, insubstantial "fabric". We are so totally immersed in it and so much a part of it that we cannot directly measure any change in vacuum impedance. And nor can we directly measure any change in the velocity of light, because we calibrate our rods and clocks using the motion of light:

Under the International System of Units, the second is currently defined as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom...

The metre is the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299792458 of a second...

So when we measure the motion of light, we're taking that measurement using units derived from... the motion of light. And as pair production is telling us, we are made of this stuff. Anything that affects the speed of light affects electrons, and we can say the same for protons and neutrons. It affects all processes. That's why we can’t measure the change in c locally. It's like trying to measure the length of your shadow using the shadow of your ruler. It always measures the same, be it morning, noon, or dusk. But we can infer the change in c. We can measure it from afar, by comparison. It’s there in the gravitational time dilation, programmed into our GPS, in the Shapiro delay. The evidence is hiding in plain view, we can see it but we don’t know what we’re seeing. For many of us c is set in stone, and to challenge the constancy of the speed of light would be to challenge relativity. But Einstein told us about the variable speed of light. The space is not homogeneous, there's a gradient in vacuum impedance and hence a gradient in c, and that's why things fall down.

The bald truth is that a gradient in c is what a gravitational field is, and when you can appreciate this, you can allow yourself the epiphany of understanding gravitational potential energy. We know that E=mc², so a cannonball sitting quietly in space represents maybe 10^11 Joules of energy. If a planet now comes onto the scene, the cannonball will fall towards it, and just before impact will also have kinetic energy of say 10^8 Joules. Now, we ask, where did this kinetic energy actually come from? Has it been sucked out of the planet via some magical mysterious action at a distance? Let's ask an expert, somebody who was right on the money:

“That gravity should be innate, inherent, and essential to matter, so that one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum, without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking can ever fall into it”.

That's a no from Sir Isaac Newton, and he should know. So, has it been magically extracted from the surrounding space? No, the energy density in the surrounding space is not reduced when a cannonball falls through it. The force of gravity doesn’t work like that in relativity. A free-falling body is not accelerating, the body on the ground is the one accelerating. No acceleration means no force and no energy is being delivered. So the only source of that kinetic energy is the cannonball itself. It hasn’t come from its mass because mass is “invariant”. So E=mc² and we’ve got a cannonball kinetic energy that hasn’t come out of the m. There’s only one place left it can have come from: the c. The c up there is greater than the c down here, and there’s a gradient in between. The Pound-Rebka experiment backs this up. There’s a gravitational blue-shift because the c is reduced so it looks like there’s more energy in the photon at the bottom of the tower. But the photon hasn't changed, the environment has changed, and the measuring devices, because of the gradient in c. There’s always a gradient in c wherever there’s gravity. Yes, the gradient might be very small. But don't neglect it like the tidal gradient, which is a gradient in the gradient in c. Because without that local gradient in c, things don't fall down.

Let’s take a look at an electron to see why things fall down. It has angular momentum aka spin and a magnetic dipole moment, and this evidence along with electron-positron annihilation tells us its something like a self-trapped 511keV photon going round and round in circles. Stick a circle of light that looks like this: O, into a gravitational gradient, caused by a very large number of other electrons and protons some distance off. What’s going to happen? Let’s divide the circle into four flat quadrants and make it very simple:

..
....
..

Starting from the left and going anticlockwise, at a given instant we have a photon travelling down like this ↓. There’s a gradient in c from top to bottom, but all it does is make the photon look blueshifted. A little while later the photon is moving like this → and the lower portion of the photon wave-front is subject to a slightly lower c than the upper portion. So it bends, refracts, curves down a little. Later it’s going this way ↑ and looks redshifted, and later still it’s going this way ← and bends down again. These bends translate into a different position for our electron. The bent photon path becomes electron motion. The electron falls down:




The reducing speed of light effectively bleeds motion out of the component photon and into the electron. But only half the cycle got bent, so only half the reduced c goes into kinetic energy aka relativistic mass. That’s why light is deflected twice as much as matter. That’s why gravity is not some magical mysterious action-at-a-distance force. There are no hidden dimensions, there's no blizzard of gravitons sleeting between the masses. There’s no energy being delivered, so gravity isn’t a force in the usual sense, and it isn't negative energy. There is no location in a gravitational field where the matter/energy of a planet, or the vacuum energy of space, is negative. It’s just the gradient in the properties of space caused by the central stress-energy. And it makes things fall down like this:

Imagine a swimming pool. Every morning you swim from one end to the other in a straight line. In the dead of night I truck in a load of gelatine powder and tip it all down the left hand side. This starts diffusing across the breadth of the pool, imparting a viscosity gradient from left to right. The next morning when you go for your swim, something's not right, and you find that you're veering to the left. If you could see your wake, you'd notice it was curved. That's your curved spacetime, because the pool is the space round a planet, the viscosity gradient is Einstein's non-constant gμν, and you're a photon. As to how the gradient attracts matter, consider a single electron. We can make an electron along with a positron from light, via pair production. Since the electron also has spin, think of it as light trapped in a circular path. So if you're swimming round and round in circles, whenever you're swimming up or down the pool you're veering left. Hence you find yourself working over to the left. That's why things fall down.


NB: note that it’s energy that causes gravity, not matter per se. Matter only causes gravity because of the energy content. See The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity and look at page 185 where Einstein says "the energy of the gravitational field shall act gravitatively in the same way as any other kind of energy". A gravitational field is a region of space that contains extra energy and in itself causes gravity, hence an integration approach is required, as per page 201. But we don't consider a gravitational field to be dark matter. We don’t go looking for WIMPs. Yes, space is "dark", and the mass of a system is a measure of its energy content, so if you defined the space around a planet as a system, it has a mass of sorts. But it isn’t matter. It’s just space. What did Einstein say about space? Neither homogeneous nor isotropic. What does the FLRW metric say? ”The FLRW metric starts with the assumption of homogeneity and isotropy of space.” Spot the difference? Gravitational anomalies aren’t evidence for dark matter. Dark matter is just a hypothesis that attempts to explain them. And those who promote it sweep the raisins-in-the-cake analogy under the carpet. The universe expands, but the space within the galaxies doesn’t, because galaxies are gravitationally bound. So each and every galaxy is surrounded by a halo of inhomogeneous space. That’s a gμν gradient. It’s a gravitational field without any matter on the end of it. So when you hear people talking about the hunt for dark matter, bear this in mind.
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ChildInAZoo
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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by ChildInAZoo » Sat May 15, 2010 3:30 pm

Again, this presentation suffers from the same confusing presentation as all the other essays presented here.

But let's cut to the chase: the confirmation of the predictions by the evidence.

The claim: we can do away with the hunt for dark matter by taking the energy of the gravitational field into account.

This is a claim that should be easy to confirm.

So, Farsight, in order to substantiate your claim, please confirm your prediction by

a) picking any galaxy or galaxy cluster with rotation that as been established

b) calculating the energy of the gravitational field

c) showing the effect of that energy on the rotation of the chosen structure

d) showing that the rotation predicted by your theory matches the observed rotation

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by LaMont Cranston » Sat May 15, 2010 4:31 pm

Farsight, It's going to take some time (there's that time thing again) to go over your posts. Thank you for starting this thread.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm

A pleasure Lamont. Don't hesitate to ask questions or pose any challenges. The impedance is very important, this thread on electromagnetism might give some extra background on that: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... =9&t=11608. But I'm afraid I must go now - it's 6pm here in England. I'll look in tomorrow.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by lpetrich » Tue May 18, 2010 11:10 am

Farsight's Einstein-thumping is stupid. Einstein was clearly trying to work out GR, and along the way, he got results that suggested that the speed of light varies. I think that it was some problem with time coordinates -- he was using speed relative to distances and times measured from long distances, which can disagree with local constancy. Imagine a ray of light coming in to near a circular orbit around a black hole, making several orbits, then departing. Much longer than one would expect with the hole absent.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by newolder » Tue May 18, 2010 12:11 pm

Farsight,
After you have answered ChildInAZoo's questions...
Farsight wrote:He gives the expression c = c0 (1 + Φ/c²), which is c varying with gravitational potential.
A testable prediction. The speed of light is different at different potential energies.
in a place where the gravitational potential is lower, the light goes slower.
Well, that's about 1/3rd of the story written in the maths you've quoted...

In Einstein's expression:
Wherever Φ = 0 the speed of light does not change, ever.
Φ > 0 => c increases with increasing Φ, Loop Quantum Gravity, Lee Smolin, 2008
Φ < 0 => c decreases as Φ gets more negative, reaches 0 when Φ = -c2 and the equation becomes very strange to translate beyond this. Taylor expansion (John Ellis, Philip Kaaret, etc...).

Edit:
Recent observations by the GLAST/Fermi Space Observatory show no energy-related change in c over the range 10 keV to 300 GeV across huge realms of space-time (measured in gigaparsecs or billions of light years). (Follow Einstein's Cosmic Speed Limit at link.)

Next, correct quantisation of Φ... :coffee:
“This data is not Monte Carlo.”, …, “This collision is not a simulation.” - LHC-b guy, 30th March 2010.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Tue May 18, 2010 1:17 pm

newolder wrote:Farsight, After you have answered ChildInAZoo's questions...
They aren't questions, newolder. They're deliberate diversions requesting mathematics that nobody will understand, intended only to deflect from the discussion.
newolder wrote:A testable prediction. The speed of light is different at different potential energies.
And it has been amply tested. But sadly many people insist that the speed doesn't change, and rely on "time dilation" to defend this assertion.
newolder wrote:In Einstein's expression: Wherever Φ = 0 the speed of light does not change, ever.
No problem.
newolder wrote:Φ > 0 => c increases with increasing Φ, Loop Quantum Gravity, Lee Smolin, 2008
OK.
newolder wrote:Φ < 0 => c decreases as Φ gets more negative, reaches 0 when Φ = -
OK.
newolder wrote:..and the equation becomes very strange to translate beyond this.
No it doesn't. Light stops. Everything stops. And that's it.
newolder wrote:Next, the quantisation of Φ... :coffee:
You're way behind the times newolder. Read this: http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.4866.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by ChildInAZoo » Tue May 18, 2010 1:28 pm

Farsight wrote:
newolder wrote:Farsight, After you have answered ChildInAZoo's questions...
They aren't questions, newolder. They're deliberate diversions requesting mathematics that nobody will understand, intended only to deflect from the discussion.
Well, there's someone showing their true colors. Again and again you seem to show that your only real skills are employing the same rhetorical techniques to avoid questions that you decry when used by others.

Remember when you wrote, "Some people will do anything to prevent an open sincere discussion." It turns out that "some people" includes you. I asked fair and direct questions relevant to your specific claims. Obviously someone must understand the relevant mathematics, because there are hundreds of papers that make use of the galactic rotation curves. There are even papers that try to account for these curves using general relativity alone. Yet you are claiming that none of the physicists that write these papers understand the mathematics?

If you cannot support your assertion about the operation of gravity in the cases where we find dark matter with scientific evidence, what are you supporting your claim with? How do you hope to overturn the hundreds of papers that actually use the available observations?
newolder wrote:A testable prediction. The speed of light is different at different potential energies.
And it has been amply tested. But sadly many people insist that the speed doesn't change, and rely on "time dilation" to defend this assertion.
Can you please demonstrate the appeal to time dilation in the work cited by newolder?
newolder wrote:Next, the quantisation of Φ... :coffee:
You're way behind the times newolder. Read this: http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.4866.
What does this paper have to do with your use of Φ? It appears grossly inconsistent with your position, since this paper recovers the mathematics supporting the evidence for dark matter.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by newolder » Tue May 18, 2010 1:49 pm

Farsight wrote:They aren't questions, newolder. ...
So, Farsight, in order to substantiate your claim, please confirm your prediction by 

a) picking any galaxy or galaxy cluster with rotation that as been established

b) calculating the energy of the gravitational field

c) showing the effect of that energy on the rotation of the chosen structure

d) showing that the rotation predicted by your theory matches the observed rotation
Let's be specific: a) => Andromeda* The galaxy cluster you've already made reference to. b) Do some work. c) Do some more work. d) Publish.
How is this difficult?
No it doesn't. Light stops. Everything stops. And that's it. 
Let Φ = -2c2. The equation gives c = c0(1 – 2) = -c0.
The evidence to support your contrarian wibble is what?
You're way behind the times newolder. Read this: http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.4866.
I'm not the 1 who thinks time is motion. :roll: Thanks for the paper – reading it now... spin(11,3) is news to me. :soup: :cheers: Their ansatz for Φ (a Hodge dual) differs from yours since yours is, as yet, undefined.

* or, The Milky Way - but that's already been done (2006) by other physicists and engineers.

edit after reading comment below.
Last edited by newolder on Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by ChildInAZoo » Tue May 18, 2010 2:15 pm

Heck, I'd be happy if he could do show the work relevant to the picture he chose for his discussion on gravitational lensing. That particular image is of a galaxy and a quasar that have undergone extensive study and I believe that the gravitational lensing of that system is just what we expect given the hypothesis that there is dark matter in that galaxy that accounts for its rotation curve. This means that the use of the picture is another poor citation to research undermining his theory. Again, he makes predictions there that he just can't support.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Tue May 18, 2010 2:50 pm

ChildInAZoo wrote:Well, there's someone showing their true colors. Again and again you seem to show that your only real skills are employing the same rhetorical techniques to avoid questions that you decry when used by others.
If you've got a question, I'll answer it. But those weren't questions, they were a diversionary demand, with the sole purpose of distracting from the point of the thread. Here they are again:
ChildInAZoo wrote:So, Farsight, in order to substantiate your claim, please confirm your prediction by
a) picking any galaxy or galaxy cluster with rotation that as been established
b) calculating the energy of the gravitational field
c) showing the effect of that energy on the rotation of the chosen structure
d) showing that the rotation predicted by your theory matches the observed rotation
LOL. Your pretence that these are "fair" and "direct" questions fools nobody.
ChildInAZoo wrote:Remember when you wrote, "Some people will do anything to prevent an open sincere discussion." It turns out that "some people" includes you. I asked fair and direct questions relevant to your specific claims.
No it doesn't and no you didn't. See above.
ChildInAZoo wrote:Obviously someone must understand the relevant mathematics, because there are hundreds of papers that make use of the galactic rotation curves. There are even papers that try to account for these curves using general relativity alone. Yet you are claiming that none of the physicists that write these papers understand the mathematics?
No. And that's what you call a straw man argument.
ChildInAZoo wrote:If you cannot support your assertion about the operation of gravity in the cases where we find dark matter with scientific evidence...
No, you don't find dark matter, and there is no scientific evidence for it.
ChildInAZoo wrote:...what are you supporting your claim with?
General relativity plus good evidence that the universe is expanding in line with the raisins-in-the-cake analogy, so resulting in inhomogeneous space. That's a gravitational field, with no causative matter. Simple.
ChildInAZoo wrote:How do you hope to overturn the hundreds of papers that actually use the available observations?
By simply pointing out that the energy of a gravitational field cause an additional component of gravity, and that the additional spatial stress-energy is not dark matter.
newolder wrote:Can you please demonstrate the appeal to time dilation in the work cited by newolder?
Yes. See the recent documentary featuring Stephen Hawking talking concerning time travel. Also see the Time Explained thread.
ChildInAZoo wrote:What does this paper have to do with your use of Φ? It appears grossly inconsistent with your position, since this paper recovers the mathematics supporting the evidence for dark matter.
Read the paper. It supports my position, it does not support dark matter, and lest we forget: there is no evidence for dark matter, and general relativity tells us why you can't find it.
ChildInAZoo wrote:Heck, I'd be happy if he could do show the work relevant to the picture he chose for his discussion on gravitational lensing...
No, you wouldn't. I'm sorry ChildInAZoo. Dark matter is a busted flush. Get used to it. Now stop wasting my time with your clinging attempts to discredit and spoil the thread.

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Re: How Gravity Works

Post by Farsight » Tue May 18, 2010 2:59 pm

newolder wrote:Let's be specific: a) => Andromeda* The galaxy cluster you've already made reference to. b) Do some work. c) Do some more work. d) Publish. How is this difficult?
Let's be specific. Those weren't questions.
newolder wrote:Let Φ = -2c2. The equation gives c = c0(1 – 2) = -c0. The evidence to support your contrarian wibble is what?
Right in front of you. There is no negative motion. What, you think you can slow slow and then keep slowing down until your motion goes negative? LOL.
newolder wrote:I'm not the 1 who thinks time is motion. Thanks for the paper – reading it now...
LOL again. Go ask Smolin what he thinks time is.

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