Is Islam Really the Religion of Hate?

[FBM]

Or has it simply been the victim of a smear campaign by Western powers?

I admit to my bias; I think Islam teaches its followers to practice kindness, mercy, patience, generosity, etc, only to other Muslims. All others are to be tolerated until such time as they can either be converted or killed.

I also admit to a great deal of willful ignorance on the subject. I don't really give a rat's ass enough about the details of any theistic system of thought to give them a second glance, at least since I realized that xtianity was a load of politically-motivated, reverse-engineered rubbish.

I've also had quite a few friendly experiences with Muslims, and I can't recall any negative experiences, unless you count being trapped in a small space with someone who isn't keen on personal hygiene. I've been impressed by their (the ones I've met) emphasis on social harmony and hospitality. (Wait, I just remembered one guy at university who wouldn't shut up about how great Allah was, even when I said I wasn't interested.)

So, that's the conundrum. The batshit crazy, kill-all-infidels Muslims aren't the same ones I've met, as far as I know. The ones I've met seem to be decent people, however deluded. If you care enough about the topic, please try to present and defend your position on whether or not Islam is rightfully characterized as the 'religion of hate'.


Is it:



or




Is one more 'real' than the other?

[Feck]

The fact that millions of muslims are decent pleasant people just as many christians jews and hindus are does not detract from the contents of the book.

You cannot claim that because large parts of the written law are ignored ,because they are frankly barbaric, is any basis for the tolerance of that religion.
In truth the fact that modern religious people chose to pick out the parts that are appropriate today is a triumph of enlightened human thinking and is therefore
the death knell for ignorant superstitions .

While any of these barbaric books and traditions are venerated by 'normal sensible' people the gates are left open for fundamentalism, hatred and violence.

[Pappa]

It's a religion of love and hate (and everything else in between). Really it's no better or worse than the other Abrahamic religions, it's just that culturally Islam was going through a bit of a medieval phase, and recent world history has forged it into a more fundamentalist mode. It is the most dangerous and disgusting of the lot, but only for cultural reasons (IMO). Christianity would be just as bad if Christians were still suggesting the OT rules should be stringently applied.

[FBM]

Right, so the OP offers two conflicting takes on Islam. Are they both accurate, then?

[Feck]

Yes in the same way that xians range from Pro-life bomb throwing nut jobs to gentle xians that dedicate there whole life to helping others .

[kiki5711]

As I said Islam is/are Muslims. There is no cut between the two. The reason they are nice here in USA is cause we are their customers. They own many shops, gas stations, etc...We help pay for their education, medication and help them get loans for houses. You know the "pretend" game. Yes I've met many nice muslims and they were always polite, but you will never know what they really think about you. What they are taught in their mosques.

[FBM]

Could be. Could be. If so, they sound a lot like Koreans.

[kiki5711]

Could be. Could be. If so, they sound a lot like Koreans.

Koreans are mostly Christians and are not planning to overtake the world. They are very much into their culture and do not like their kids to marry another race. But that is a cultural prejudice, not religious. I've lived with a Korean community and it's really hard to break into their circle, but once they accept you as one of them, they will be your friend forever.

[MissingNo.]

Islam is not inherently more evil than any of the other Abrahamic religions. It only seems that way because unlike Judaism and Christianity, it hasn't had the privilege of being dragged kicking and screaming into the modern secular world. Christianity and Judaism only seem less barbaric now because they've had the benefit of influence from secular rational thought. You'll probably find that most Muslims who live in secular societies are just as mild as liberal Christians.

[FBM]

Could be. Could be. If so, they sound a lot like Koreans.

Koreans are mostly Christians and are not planning to overtake the world. They are very much into their culture and do not like their kids to marry another race. But that is a cultural prejudice, not religious. I've lived with a Korean community and it's really hard to break into their circle, but once they accept you as one of them, they will be your friend forever.

I've lived in Korea since '96. Yes, they are planning to take over the world. They're just waiting for the rest of us to learn how to make proper kimchee for them.

[kiki5711]

Could be. Could be. If so, they sound a lot like Koreans.

Koreans are mostly Christians and are not planning to overtake the world. They are very much into their culture and do not like their kids to marry another race. But that is a cultural prejudice, not religious. I've lived with a Korean community and it's really hard to break into their circle, but once they accept you as one of them, they will be your friend forever.

I've lived in Korea since '96. Yes, they are planning to take over the world. They're just waiting for the rest of us to learn how to make proper kimchee for them.

I love that stuff!!!! Especially with curry and rice. I love many of their delicious dishes. Japanese too.!!

[Sisifo]

As I said Islam is/are Muslims. There is no cut between the two. The reason they are nice here in USA is cause we are their customers. They own many shops, gas stations, etc...We help pay for their education, medication and help them get loans for houses. You know the "pretend" game. Yes I've met many nice muslims and they were always polite, but you will never know what they really think about you. What they are taught in their mosques.

I have lived all around Middle East for years, and also more years in North and West Africa. They were all muslim countries and as a rule I have felt more kindness than average western countries. I swear that were I to wake in distress, and in need of anonymous help any part in the world at random, I would choose that any Muslim capital than a western capital. I also can say that you can expect the same differences between muslims that between a xtian from Peru and a German xtian. My point is that religion, whatever its credum, is a social expression; I would not expect much difference in behavour if the Born Again States of USA were muslims. And the muslim immigrants don't behave much differently than other immigrants, like hindi or animists.

If you read travelling books from the Victorian times, you will appreciate that the travellers were actually astonished about Islam, that granted more freedom and cultural openness than other religions, including the xtianism of the time, expressed in the victorian values. The current issues between western/xtian values and muslim values is not any other than a cultural difference of social development. They are the conflicts of democratic values against tribalistic values.

About religion of hate or love, I want to summon here the memory of the war int he former Yugoslavia, that eventually had also shades of a religious war. We had Orthodox, Muslims and Catholics and you could not give any religion for granted when reading the brutal things that happened.

[MissingNo.]

Kimchee is fucking awesome! I used to not like it much but I'm glad I've come around. By the way, I know this is getting off-topic but this is rationalia so fuck it: FBM, are you familiar with the restaurant Bonga Buldak? It's a Korean chain and they opened a couple franchises here a few years ago under the name Home of Hot Taste. Their menus are hilariously mistranslated and their chicken is pretty good but they make this rice with pieces of seaweed and flying fish eggs and HOLY FUCK it's the best thing ever. I've tried to replicate it at home but it isn't the same.

[FBM]

...They are the conflicts of democratic values against tribalistic values...

What would you say to the idea that religions are initiated by the sincerely deluded, only to be capitalized upon by opportunists who see them mainly as means to furthering their own political ambitions?

[Sisifo]

...They are the conflicts of democratic values against tribalistic values...

What would you say to the idea that religions are initiated by the sincerely deluded, only to be capitalized upon by opportunists who see them mainly as means to furthering their own political ambitions?

Cheese?


I would not say that religions are iniciated by deluded; sincere or not. I think religion is just an interpretation of the world that excludes science; wether for historical reasons or information issues. And an opportunist will capitalize anything that is appealing, not just religion; any tradition gets into that definition. The manipulation potential of a tradition is higher the more adherents it has. In that sense religion is a good string for the puppetmaster, but history has plenty of examples of other traditions manipulated in that way, like language, dress, ever hairstyle.

Not to talk about other fictional ideas, like "race", "nation"...