What does the word 'holy' mean?

[Rum]

I was thinking about this the other day when I was watching some twats fighting over some holy territory which one lot said was theirs and it was holy to them and the other lot said no it was theirs and holy to them.

While there is of course a dictionary definition I really don't understand the concept any more.

[Theophilus]

From a Christian and Jewish perspective it usually means "set aside for God". I imagine that would be the same in Islam as well, but probably not in the Eastern religions. So in the case of "Holy Land" the belief would be that there was a divine purpose for that land that must be fulfilled. This of course is quite problematic when two groups have conflicting Holy claims on land; political solutions are probably not possible.

[Rum]

From a Christian and Jewish perspective it usually means "set aside for God". I imagine that would be the same in Islam as well, but probably not in the Eastern religions. So in the case of "Holy Land" the belief would be that there was a divine purpose for that land that must be fulfilled. This of course is quite problematic when two groups have conflicting Holy claims on land; political solutions are probably not possible.

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

[Theophilus]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

[Rum]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

Ok, but what changes in the water? Do people believe god is in it somehow? If so in what way exactly? People make it holy - does god obey and enter it? And how does dedicating something (like water) for the use of a sacramental purpose (another word that has come to puzzle me of late) change it? Does it become magical in some way? I thought magic was supposed to be bad. Or is god magic different?

[JimC]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

Ok, but what changes in the water? Do people believe god is in it somehow? If so in what way exactly? People make it holy - does god obey and enter it? And how does dedicating something (like water) for the use of a sacramental purpose (another word that has come to puzzle me of late) change it? Does it become magical in some way? I thought magic was supposed to be bad. Or is god magic different?

I suspect that the catholic tradition does indeed think there is some actual, supernatural change to the water, but more recent/liberal christian reasoning would be that holy objects have a purely symbolic "holiness", derived from their intended use in religious ceremony...

[Rum]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

Ok, but what changes in the water? Do people believe god is in it somehow? If so in what way exactly? People make it holy - does god obey and enter it? And how does dedicating something (like water) for the use of a sacramental purpose (another word that has come to puzzle me of late) change it? Does it become magical in some way? I thought magic was supposed to be bad. Or is god magic different?

I suspect that the catholic tradition does indeed think there is some actual, supernatural change to the water, but more recent/liberal christian reasoning would be that holy objects have a purely symbolic "holiness", derived from their intended use in religious ceremony...

Sure..but what do they mean in this (defensive) position by 'symbolic' holiness?

[JimC]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

Ok, but what changes in the water? Do people believe god is in it somehow? If so in what way exactly? People make it holy - does god obey and enter it? And how does dedicating something (like water) for the use of a sacramental purpose (another word that has come to puzzle me of late) change it? Does it become magical in some way? I thought magic was supposed to be bad. Or is god magic different?

I suspect that the catholic tradition does indeed think there is some actual, supernatural change to the water, but more recent/liberal christian reasoning would be that holy objects have a purely symbolic "holiness", derived from their intended use in religious ceremony...

Sure..but what do they mean in this (defensive) position by 'symbolic' holiness?

That's where it starts to get wooly...

Deep down, I suspect religion has made use of objects, pictures and places that they maintain have some form of holiness as one of the mechanisms to reinforce belief...

This "imbued with holiness" stuff (symbolic or not) does not require rigorous philosophical justification to do the job they want it to do...

[Rum]

Well we reach the empty heart of it don't we? It actually means fuck all.

[MissingNo.]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

Ok, but what changes in the water? Do people believe god is in it somehow? If so in what way exactly? People make it holy - does god obey and enter it? And how does dedicating something (like water) for the use of a sacramental purpose (another word that has come to puzzle me of late) change it? Does it become magical in some way? I thought magic was supposed to be bad. Or is god magic different?

Of course god magic is different. Have you not heard of miracles? They're violations of natural law which is magic by definition. I suspect holy water is viewed in a similar way.

[Theophilus]

So a holy relic, for example is 'set aside for god'? What about holy water? And how does blessing it make something holy? And what does it become once it is that it was not before?

In the case of water what is different is simply its use; Holy water is set aside for certain uses rather than drinking. For those that believe in the use of Holy water it would not mean any transformation in the water itself, but simply a dedication of that water for certain (usually sacramental) uses.

Ok, but what changes in the water? Do people believe god is in it somehow? If so in what way exactly? People make it holy - does god obey and enter it? And how does dedicating something (like water) for the use of a sacramental purpose (another word that has come to puzzle me of late) change it? Does it become magical in some way? I thought magic was supposed to be bad. Or is god magic different?

I would say (coming from a high church background) nothing changes beyond its intended use. But these outward physical symbols (such as the use of water in baptism) are there to point us towards the involvement of God. There is no magic in the water, but the water symbolises the workings of God in what it is used for. Once set aside for these uses it would usually be inappropriate to use it elsewhere. If you Google sacrament and sacramental you'll find lots more. Not all Christians would choose to consecrate material things for sacred use, it tends to be the high churches.

[JimC]

Well we reach the empty heart of it don't we? It actually means fuck all.

In one sense this is true, but it does mean something to them (even though we tend to regard that meaning as empty of any content descriptive of the way the universe works)

However, the fact that it does have meaning to them implies that it, in a sociological sense, becomes an important agent in a variety of ways, including maintaining and confirming group identity.

[Jerome23]

I liked the oNline Etymology Dictionary definition, mainly cos it made me laugh - not such a holy word?


O.E. halig "holy," from P.Gmc. *khailagas (cf. O.N. heilagr, Ger. heilig, Goth. hailags "holy"), adopted at conversion for L. sanctus. Primary (pre-Christian) meaning is not possible to determine, but it was probably "that must be preserved whole or intact, that cannot be transgressed or violated," and connected with O.E. hal (see health) and O.H.G. heil "health, happiness, good luck" (source of the Ger. salutation heil). Holy water was in Old English. Holy has been used as an intensifying word from 1837; used in expletives since 1880s (e.g. Holy smoke, 1889, holy mackerel, 1903, holy moly etc.), all euphemisms for holy Christ or Holy Moses.

Holy Hitler? Holy Smoke! Hale and Holy?

j x

[enkidu]

You want holy? Here's holy


"* Holy Agility
* Holy Almost
* Holy Alphabet
* Holy Alps
* Holy Alter Ego
* Holy Anagram
* Holy Apparition
* Holy Armadillo
* Holy Armour Plate
* Holy Ashtray
* Holy Asp
* Holy Astronomy
* Holy Astringent Plum-like Fruit
* Holy Audubon
* Holy Backfire
* Holy Ball And Chain
* Holy Bank Balance
* Holy Bankruptcy
* Holy Banks
* Holy Bargain Basements
* Holy Barracuda
* Holy Bat Logic
* Holy Bat Trap
* Holy Benedict Arnold
* Holy Bijou
* Holy Bikini
* Holy Bill Of Rights
* Holy Birthday Cake
* Holy Black Beard
* Holy Blackout
* Holy Blank Cartridge
* Holy Blizzard
* Holy Bluebeard
* Holy Bouncing Boiler Plate
* Holy Bowler
* Holy Bullseye
* Holy Bunions
* Holy Caffeine
* Holy Camouflage
* Holy Captain Nemo
* Holy Caruso
* Holy Catastrophe
* Holy Cats
* Holy Chicken Coop
* Holy Chilblains
* Holy Chocolate Eclair
* Holy Cinderella
* Holy Cinemascope
* Holy Cliche
* Holy Cliffhangers
* Holy Clockwork
* Holy Clockworks
* Holy Cofax You Mean
* Holy Coffin Nails
* Holy Cold Creeps
* Holy Complications
* Holy Conflagration
* Holy Contributing to the Delinquency of Minors
* Holy Corpuscles
* Holy Cosmos
* Holy Costume Party
* Holy Crack Up
* Holy Crossfire
* Holy Crucial Moment
* Holy Cryptology
* Holy Detonator
* Holy Disappearing Act
* Holy Diversionary Tactics
* Holy Egg Shells
* Holy Encore
* Holy Explosion
* Holy Felony
* Holy Fishbowl
* Holy Flight Plan
* Holy Flood Gate
* Holy Floor Covering
* Holy Fly Paper
* Holy Fly Trap
* Holy Fog
* Holy Forecast
* Holy Fork In The Road
* Holy Fourth Amendment
* Holy Fourth Of July
* Holy Frankenstein
* Holy Frankenstein Its Alive
* Holy Fratricide
* Holy Frogman
* Holy Fruit Salad
* Holy Frying Towels
* Holy Funny Bone
* Holy Gall
* Holy Gambles
* Holy Gemini
* Holy Geography
* Holy Ghost Writer
* Holy Give Aways
* Holy Glow Pot
* Holy Golden Gate
* Holy Graf Zeppelin
* Holy Grammar
* Holy Graveyards
* Holy Greed
* Holy Green Card
* Holy Guacamole
* Holy Guadalcanal
* Holy Gulability
* Holy Gunpowder
* Holy Haberdashery
* Holy Hail Storm
* Holy Hairdo
* Holy Hallelujah
* Holy Halloween
* Holy Hallucination
* Holy Hamburger
* Holy Hamlet
* Holy Hamstrings
* Holy Happenstance
* Holy Hardest Metal In The World
* Holy Harem
* Holy Harshin
* Holy Haziness
* Holy Headache
* Holy Headline
* Holy Heart Failure
* Holy Heartbreak
* Holy Heidelberg
* Holy Helmets
* Holy Helplessness
* Holy Here We Go Again
* Holy Hi Fi
* Holy Hieroglyphic
* Holy Highwire
* Holy Hijack
* Holy Hijackers
* Holy History
* Holy Hoaxes
* Holy Hole In A Donut
* Holy Hollywood
* Holy Holocaust
* Holy Homecoming
* Holy Homework
* Holy Homicide
* Holy Hoodwink
* Holy Hoof Beats
* Holy Hors D Oeuvre
* Holy Horseshoes
* Holy Hostage
* Holy Hot Foot
* Holy Houdini
* Holy Human Collectors Item
* Holy Human Pearls
* Holy Human Pressure Cookers
* Holy Human Surfboards
* Holy Hunting Horn
* Holy Hurricane
* Holy Hutzpa
* Holy Hydraulics
* Holy Hypodermics
* Holy Hypnotism
* Holy Ice Picks
* Holy Ice Skates
* Holy Iceberg
* Holy Impossibility
* Holy Impregnability
* Holy Incantation
* Holy Inquisition
* Holy Interplanetary Yardstick
* Holy Interruptions
* Holy Iodine
* Holy IT and T
* Holy Jack In The Box
* Holy Jack in the Box - 2
* Holy Jackpot
* Holy Jail Break
* Holy Jaw Breaker
* Holy Jelly Molds
* Holy jelly Moulds
* Holy Jet Set
* Holy Jigsaw Puzzles
* Holy Jitter Bugs
* Holy Journey To The Center Of The Earth
* Holy Jumble
* Holy Karats
* Holy Key Hole
* Holy Key Ring
* Holy Kilowatts
* Holy Kindergarten
* Holy Knit One Pearl Two
* Holy Knock Out Drops
* Holy Known Unknown Flying Objects
* Holy Kofax
* Holy Las Vegas
* Holy Leopard
* Holy Levitation
* Holy Levitation - 2
* Holy Liftoff
* Holy Living End
* Holy Lodestone
* Holy Long John Silver
* Holy Looking Glass
* Holy Love Birds
* Holy Luther Burbank
* Holy Madness
* Holy Magic Lantern
* Holy Magician
* Holy Main Springs
* Holy Marathon
* Holy Mashed Potatoes
* Holy Masquerade
* Holy Masquerade - 2
* Holy Matador
* Holy Mechanical Armies
* Holy Memory Bank
* Holy Merlin Magician
* Holy Mermaid
* Holy Merry Go Around
* Holy Mesmerism
* Holy Metronome
* Holy Miracles
* Holy Miscast
* Holy Missing Relatives
* Holy Molars
* Holy Mole Hill
* Holy Mucilage
* Holy Multitudes
* Holy Murder
* Holy Mush
* Holy Mush - 2
* Holy Naive
* Holy New Years Eve
* Holy Nick Of Time
* Holy Nightmare
* Holy Non Sequiturs
* Holy Oleo
* Holy Olfactory
* Holy One Track Bat Computer Mind
* Holy Oversight
* Holy Oxygen
* Holy Paderewski
* Holy Paraffin
* Holy Perfect Pitch
* Holy Pianola
* Holy Pin Cushions
* Holy Polar Front
* Holy Polar Ice Sheet
* Holy Polaris
* Holy Popcorn
* Holy Potluck
* Holy Pressure Cooker
* Holy Priceless Collection of Etruscan Snoods
* Holy Pseudonym
* Holy Purple Cannibals
* Holy Puzzlers
* Holy Rainbow
* Holy Rats In A Trap
* Holy Ravioli
* Holy Razors Edge
* Holy Recompense
* Holy Red Herring
* Holy Red Snapper
* Holy Reincarnation
* Holy Relief
* Holy Remote Control Robot
* Holy Reshevsky
* Holy Return From Oblivion
* Holy Reverse Polarity
* Holy Rheostat
* Holy Ricochet
* Holy Rip Van Winkle
* Holy Rising Hemlines
* Holy Roadblocks
* Holy Robert Louis Stevenson
* Holy Rock Garden
* Holy Rocking Chair
* Holy Romeo And Juliet
* Holy Rudder
* Holy Safari
* Holy Sarcophagus
* Holy Sardine
* Holy Scalding
* Holy Schizophrenia
* Holy Sedatives
* Holy Self Service
* Holy Semantics
* Holy Serpentine
* Holy Sewer Pipe
* Holy Shamrocks
* Holy Sherlock Holmes
* Holy Show-Ups
* Holy Showcase
* Holy Shrinkage
* Holy Shucks
* Holy Skull Tap
* Holy Sky Rocket
* Holy Slipped Disc
* Holy Smoke
* Holy Smokes
* Holy Smokes - 2
* Holy Smokestack
* Holy Snowball
* Holy Sonic Booms
* Holy Special Delivery
* Holy Spider Webs
* Holy Split Seconds
* Holy Squirrel Cage
* Holy Stalactites
* Holy Stampede
* Holy Standstills
* Holy Steam Valve
* Holy Stew Pot
* Holy Stomach Aches
* Holy Stratosphere
* Holy Stuffing
* Holy Subliminal
* Holy Sudden Incapacitation
* Holy Sundials
* Holy Surprise Party
* Holy Switch A Roo
* Holy Taj Mahal
* Holy Tartars
* Holy Taxation
* Holy Taxidermy
* Holy Tee Shot
* Holy Ten Toes
* Holy Terminology
* Holy Time Bomb
* Holy Tintinnabulation
* Holy Tipoffs
* Holy Titanic
* Holy Tome
* Holy Toreador
* Holy Trampoline
* Holy Transistors
* Holy Travel Agent
* Holy Trickery
* Holy Triple Feature
* Holy Trolls And Goblins
* Holy Tuxedo
* Holy Uncanny Photographic Mental Processes
* Holy Understatements
* Holy Underwritten Metropolis
* Holy Unlikelyhood
* Holy Unrefillable Prescriptions
* Holy Vat
* Holy Venezuela
* Holy Vertebrae
* Holy Voltage
* Holy Waste Of Energy
* Holy Wayne Manor
* Holy Weaponry
* Holy Wedding Cake
* Holy Whiskers
* Holy Wigs
* Holy Zorro"

from the greatest expounder of them all, Robin
Reverently gathered from his very mouth, with authentic original soundbites, at http://holysmokesbatman.com/directory

[MrFungus420]

holy = special in my mythology.