Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[Coito ergo sum]

Or, perhaps it wasn't particularly bloody. But, an explanation will, I'm sure, be sought by the prosecution and/or the defense, depending on the circumstances.

Police: Well, nor the sidewalk or grass wasn't so bloody, even though zimmerman was bleading so bad he needed bandages, which by the way don't show on the video, nevertheless, we didn't SEE any blood on the ground, so we didn't take any as evidence.

They took Zimmerman's bloody clothes in as evidence. Now I dunno if all that blood splatter analysis like in Dexter really works, but if it does it should be able to show if Zimmerman and Trayvon were standing, or if Zimmerman was on the ground with Trayvon over him.

so are you saying zimmerman's clothing in the video is NOT his clothing? they took his clothing off him as evidence, and gave him something else to wear, or did they just let him "wear" the evidence?.

The video was not long after the event occurred. Likely they would not make him strip naked in public and put on jail garb right there at the scene. They may well take him down to the station, which they did, and recover the evidence there. I am not aware of them taking his clothes. I would hope they did. And, I would expect that they took photos of him too.

I thought it was innitial procedure in any crime especially where someone ends up dead, secure the crime scene, for investigation, for collection of evidence etc....

What makes you think that did not happen?

it might be crucial to know where exactly was zimmerman's blood found and how much of it was it there. to prove his recollection that HE was the one on the ground being beaten by trayvon.

Sure, but it's not crucial that they release that evidence to me and you. The police will often keep evidence undisclosed to the public.

[Coito ergo sum]

In England, Obama would simply be described as half-caste, if the subject ever came up.

Would he? I've never heard anyone referred to as that in Blighty.

A very old-fashioned term, with racist overtones, little used in this day and age. A current racist English yob would say coon, a racist Aussie would say darkie...

I can absolutely assure you that the term half-caste has never had racist overtones in this country.
I know plenty of other terms that did, but half-caste was always the "proper", acceptable term.
Until mixed-race came in. And mixed race doesn't really say the same. Half-caste just means fifty-fifty ancestry. Mixed race can mean any proportions.

Wikipedia half-caste page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-caste

Well, the wiki article does say that whether it is an offensive term is up for debate in the Anglophone world. But, according to the wiki article it is, in fact, synonymous with mixed race, by way of clarification. I'm sure it's one of those words, though, that are used differently depending on where it's being used.

I can't recall ever hearing the term used until you just used it. I either have forgotten the usage, or it's just not used around the eastern US where I've been.

To me, it sounds like it would be deemed offensive by those being called "half caste" because it evokes the idea of a caste system, or separate levels. From the wiki article, that is a different usage of the word caste, and not what is meant by the term half caste. But, the Indian caste system is the only context I've ever previously heard the word used.

I know, I know, you don't have to say it. it's because I'm Merkin and we don't know the right things.

[mistermack]

Well, the wiki article does say that whether it is an offensive term is up for debate in the Anglophone world. But, according to the wiki article it is, in fact, synonymous with mixed race, by way of clarification. I'm sure it's one of those words, though, that are used differently depending on where it's being used.

I can't recall ever hearing the term used until you just used it. I either have forgotten the usage, or it's just not used around the eastern US where I've been.

To me, it sounds like it would be deemed offensive by those being called "half caste" because it evokes the idea of a caste system, or separate levels. From the wiki article, that is a different usage of the word caste, and not what is meant by the term half caste. But, the Indian caste system is the only context I've ever previously heard the word used.

I know, I know, you don't have to say it. it's because I'm Merkin and we don't know the right things.

It does elaborate that half-caste is considered offensive in Australia, because it has unique connections with some discriminatory laws against Aboriginals. (half-caste law). It was the law, not the term, which originally had racist connections. The removing of half-caste children from their families.
So it's not surprising that JimC described it as having racist overtones in Australia.

It's perfectly clear that it has no offensive overtones anywhere else.
It's never had, or been thought to have, any connection with the caste system.

Obviously it's dropping out of use, judging by the reaction here, but it was the ONLY term for mixed race in the fifties, sixties and seventies, in the UK. (polite term, anyway).
Plenty of my friends were half-caste, it's how they would describe themselves. (if necessary).

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, the wiki article does say that whether it is an offensive term is up for debate in the Anglophone world. But, according to the wiki article it is, in fact, synonymous with mixed race, by way of clarification. I'm sure it's one of those words, though, that are used differently depending on where it's being used.

I can't recall ever hearing the term used until you just used it. I either have forgotten the usage, or it's just not used around the eastern US where I've been.

To me, it sounds like it would be deemed offensive by those being called "half caste" because it evokes the idea of a caste system, or separate levels. From the wiki article, that is a different usage of the word caste, and not what is meant by the term half caste. But, the Indian caste system is the only context I've ever previously heard the word used.

I know, I know, you don't have to say it. it's because I'm Merkin and we don't know the right things.

It does elaborate that half-caste is considered offensive in Australia, because it has unique connections with some discriminatory laws against Aboriginals. (half-caste law). It was the law, not the term, which originally had racist connections. The removing of half-caste children from their families.
So it's not surprising that JimC described it as having racist overtones in Australia.

It's perfectly clear that it has no offensive overtones anywhere else.
It's never had, or been thought to have, any connection with the caste system.

I have no reason to dispute you about that. However, the word isn't used here in the US, so if someone started calling people "half-caste" around here, I am 99% positive that it would raise a furor. It sounds bad. It would not be welcomed here, I can guarantee it, especially if uttered by a Republican.

[Clinton Huxley]

Have to agree with CES (!). I've never, ever heard the term used, I would never use it, and I'm certain it would cause offence if used.

[JimC]

Well, the wiki article does say that whether it is an offensive term is up for debate in the Anglophone world. But, according to the wiki article it is, in fact, synonymous with mixed race, by way of clarification. I'm sure it's one of those words, though, that are used differently depending on where it's being used.

I can't recall ever hearing the term used until you just used it. I either have forgotten the usage, or it's just not used around the eastern US where I've been.

To me, it sounds like it would be deemed offensive by those being called "half caste" because it evokes the idea of a caste system, or separate levels. From the wiki article, that is a different usage of the word caste, and not what is meant by the term half caste. But, the Indian caste system is the only context I've ever previously heard the word used.

I know, I know, you don't have to say it. it's because I'm Merkin and we don't know the right things.

It does elaborate that half-caste is considered offensive in Australia, because it has unique connections with some discriminatory laws against Aboriginals. (half-caste law). It was the law, not the term, which originally had racist connections. The removing of half-caste children from their families.
So it's not surprising that JimC described it as having racist overtones in Australia.

It's perfectly clear that it has no offensive overtones anywhere else.
It's never had, or been thought to have, any connection with the caste system.

Obviously it's dropping out of use, judging by the reaction here, but it was the ONLY term for mixed race in the fifties, sixties and seventies, in the UK. (polite term, anyway).
Plenty of my friends were half-caste, it's how they would describe themselves. (if necessary).

I must have thought the term was in more general use than is obviously the case. Its derivation is peculiar, as CES points out - what the fuck the Indian term "caste" has to do with people from multi-racial marriages I have no idea...

[Svartalf]

It's just supposition, but I suspect that it was a mix up that happened in the Raj fromm an original "half cast" (without e), as in "cast from only half a mold", or "improperly cast"

[mistermack]

I must have thought the term was in more general use than is obviously the case. Its derivation is peculiar, as CES points out - what the fuck the Indian term "caste" has to do with people from multi-racial marriages I have no idea...

It's a Spanish/Portugese word, not Indian according to wiki. And it's not historically associated with race, so much as class.

People were happy to be included in a caste, and the people who were discriminated against were people without a caste. ( Outcasts ). Like the untouchables.

But in general, the term half-caste, had it's own meaning of mixed-race, entirely separate from the meaning of caste. It was never used for people whose parents were from different castes.

And it was the normal word for mixed race, right around the world, for at least 100 years.

But any word these days has the potential to cause offence. Like I've pointed out before, Pakki was a perfectly harmless abbreviation up until the sixties in Britain. Now it's a slur. That's the way it goes.
I expect half-caste is in the process of going the same way.

[mistermack]

It's just supposition, but I suspect that it was a mix up that happened in the Raj fromm an original "half cast" (without e), as in "cast from only half a mold", or "improperly cast"

No, it's definitely not that :

The word caste is from Latin castus[23] "pure, cut off, segregated", and is etymologically related to carere "to cut off".[24][25]

Portuguese used the term casta to describe inherited class status within the Portuguese society. The use of same word castas, and a method of stratifying people based on "breed, race, caste" was common in colonial Spain, throughout South America and Central America, within the last 500 years.[14]

The term caste was applied to Indian society in the 17th century, via Portuguese casta "breed, race, caste".[25] The Dutch too used the word caste in their 19th century ethnography studies of Bali and other parts of southeast Asia.[26]

The phrase caste system was first recorded in 1840.[25

[Tyrannical]

I guess this is what passes for journalism these days.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -king.html

America can only dodge so many racial bullets, and a not-guilty verdict in this case could very easily turn the racial cold war into a very hot one.

As someone who watched the King riots unfold from a Los Angeles motel window (and sometimes from the balcony, when we weren’t too afraid to venture out), I’m here to tell you it was a nightmarish time. Thick, acrid black smoke from hundreds of fires hung over the L.A. basin for days as young, armed blacks and Hispanics roared around in open convertibles and jeeps, wearing bandannas and brandishing all sorts of weaponry. We could hear gunfire both in the distance and nearby. Stores that hadn’t been set on fire the first day were looted by the second, and by the third day TV stations were warning of an impending food shortage. A body lay in the gutter on Crenshaw Boulevard for the better part of two days before National Guard troops removed it.

We don’t want to go back there. Fortunately Zimmerman’s new attorney, Mark O’Mara, appears to comprehend the broader implications and potential danger of the situation, and seems well qualified to negotiate a fair outcome for his client, and indeed for the rest of us. He has the calm demeanor of a law professor, and speaks in measured, but not calculating, terms. His first comments seemed designed not to convince anyone of his client’s innocence, but rather to take the heated rhetoric down a few notches. He cautioned that everyone should allow the justice system to work.

So what would a fair outcome look like? To my mind, the government offers Zimmerman a plea deal that has him back on the street within this decade, and he accepts it quietly. That seems like a conclusion most reasonable Americans could live with. Of course, no matter how long or short any sentence may be, there will be those who disagree, some vehemently.

Railroad toward a ten year plea to avoid race riots without any concern of real guilt

[mistermack]

Railroad toward a ten year plea to avoid race riots without any concern of real guilt

Exactly. There is a dead kid, because of that loony. He should get what he deserves.
Ten years is an insult.

[Coito ergo sum]

An opinion piece by Trayvon Martin's lawyer is not journalism. It's more like a letter to the editor.

[Coito ergo sum]

Railroad toward a ten year plea to avoid race riots without any concern of real guilt

Exactly. There is a dead kid, because of that loony. He should get what he deserves.
Ten years is an insult.

If he's guilty of second degree murder, yes.

[Tyrannical]

They took Zimmerman's bloody clothes in as evidence...

I admit I haven't been keeping up with the story very closely, T. Do you have a source for that info?

Of course I do

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... tins-death

"They took [Zimmerman's] clothing as well as Trayvon's and packaged it for crime-lab analysis. A spokeswoman for Special Prosecutor Angela Corey would not disclose Tuesday where the clothing is now, but she wrote in an email that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement 'is assisting with the processing of physical evidence.' "

I bet the blood splatter analysis will show where both men were relative to each other.

[FBM]

Thanks, T.