An Open Letter to White Privilege

[Mr.Samsa]

If, given the choice between purple or orange in a hypothetical broad-based population sample where 90%+ of males chose orange and females purple, one could fairly reliably determine respondent's gender by his answer. There's a name for this type of test where a response to a seemingly unrelated question can reveal much more than the respondent is aware of, but I don't remember what it is.

That vaguely sounds like the Implicit Association Task?

Aren't these X questions often salted in IQ tests and used to weight scores?

As far as I know, there is no evidence of a gender bias in QI tests (if that's what you meant, otherwise I'm not sure what "X questions" refers to).

[piscator]

If, given the choice between purple or orange in a hypothetical broad-based population sample where 90%+ of males chose orange and females purple, one could fairly reliably determine respondent's gender by his answer. There's a name for this type of test where a response to a seemingly unrelated question can reveal much more than the respondent is aware of, but I don't remember what it is.

That vaguely sounds like the Implicit Association Task?

Aren't these X questions often salted in IQ tests and used to weight scores?

As far as I know, there is no evidence of a gender bias in QI tests (if that's what you meant, otherwise I'm not sure what "X questions" refers to).

I'm talking about the category of question. Not gender (or even race).

[mistermack]

...Is this the Metatron?

But seriously, it's not "psychologists" who claim this but scientific evidence.

Jaysus !! Scientific evidence is now making claims?

How am I overstating things? I simply said that it's a valid measure that accurately predicts a whole host of things besides how well you do on IQ tests, and the idea that it only measures your ability to perform on IQ tests has been heavily debunked - all of which are undeniably true and basically constitutes the opening paragraph or chapter of any paper and book on intelligence. The idea that it only measures cognitive ability is heavily understating its power. Just look at the now-debunked concept of "multiple intelligences" where things like musical ability were found to actually be better predicted by general intelligence, or the fact that it predicts your job success (regardless of career choice, position, etc).

As for the last bit, yeah I don't know anyone who would argue that IQ is simply a measure of innate ability.

Any test measures what you tested. If it's heavy on one aspect, it will predict an ability in that aspect.
Just because you CALL it an intelligence quotient, that doesn't mean that that's what it is.
I can call my shit cologne. That doesn't make it cologne.

Psychology is just one step away from woo. Apart from being the easiest degree you can possibly choose.
Their main use seems to be in getting compensation for people who were ''abused'' forty years ago, or getting people out of jail who should never see daylight again.

[piscator]

Most psychologists who make money work in the chemical dependency business. Then there are a lot who do ad hoc group therapy, and know a psychiatrist who will prescribe selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) and monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) in turn until one seems to work on the patient. I guess you can call that part of the chemical dependency business too.

[Mr.Samsa]

...Is this the Metatron?

But seriously, it's not "psychologists" who claim this but scientific evidence.

Jaysus !! Scientific evidence is now making claims?

How am I overstating things? I simply said that it's a valid measure that accurately predicts a whole host of things besides how well you do on IQ tests, and the idea that it only measures your ability to perform on IQ tests has been heavily debunked - all of which are undeniably true and basically constitutes the opening paragraph or chapter of any paper and book on intelligence. The idea that it only measures cognitive ability is heavily understating its power. Just look at the now-debunked concept of "multiple intelligences" where things like musical ability were found to actually be better predicted by general intelligence, or the fact that it predicts your job success (regardless of career choice, position, etc).

As for the last bit, yeah I don't know anyone who would argue that IQ is simply a measure of innate ability.

Any test measures what you tested. If it's heavy on one aspect, it will predict an ability in that aspect.
Just because you CALL it an intelligence quotient, that doesn't mean that that's what it is.
I can call my shit cologne. That doesn't make it cologne.

Psychology is just one step away from woo. Apart from being the easiest degree you can possibly choose.
Their main use seems to be in getting compensation for people who were ''abused'' forty years ago, or getting people out of jail who should never see daylight again.

Okay, okay, you can stop. I accept that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Point made.

Most psychologists who make money work in the chemical dependency business.

That seems unlikely given that psychologists can't prescribe any medication. When a patient needs medication as treatment they have to refer them to another clinician, which means that they're sending their business elsewhere. That seems like a shitty business model.

Then there are a lot who do ad hoc group therapy, and know a psychiatrist who will prescribe selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) and monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) in turn until one seems to work on the patient. I guess you can call that part of the chemical dependency business too.

Yes, that's how all medicine works - you work with your patient to determine what medication and medication levels are best for their situation. Of course psychiatrists will deal mostly in medication, that's because they are specialised in mostly treating biological disorders through biological treatments.

[piscator]

Most psychologists who make money work in the chemical dependency business.

That seems unlikely given that psychologists can't prescribe any medication. When a patient needs medication as treatment they have to refer them to another clinician, which means that they're sending their business elsewhere. That seems like a shitty business model.

Then there are a lot who do ad hoc group therapy, and know a psychiatrist who will prescribe selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) and monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) in turn until one seems to work on the patient. I guess you can call that part of the chemical dependency business too.

Yes, that's how all medicine works - you work with your patient to determine what medication and medication levels are best for their situation. Of course psychiatrists will deal mostly in medication, that's because they are specialised in mostly treating biological disorders through biological treatments.

There's little in medicine as coarse as the practice of prescribing one of the 4 psychotheraputic drugs, and most of it is done by church-affiliated amateur hacks and grifters in America. I've seen scant evidence it's much different where you come from.

[Mr.Samsa]

There's little in medicine as coarse as the practice of prescribing one of the 4 psychotheraputic drugs,

It's essentially the same as prescribing for any other medical condition.

and most of it is done by church-affiliated amateur hacks and grifters in America.

How does that work?

I've seen scant evidence it's much different where you come from.

I come from many places, but I've haven't seen the problem you're describing.

[piscator]

There's little in medicine as coarse as the practice of prescribing one of the 4 psychotheraputic drugs,

It's essentially the same as prescribing for any other medical condition.

In medicine, you have a clue what might work and why before you begin doping someone up. In Psychiatrically-affilliated shadetree psychology, you don't.

and most of it is done by church-affiliated amateur hacks and grifters in America.

How does that work?

It usually starts with trauma, then, several years after the divorce or death, we're still on meds and still shelling out $250/week for "Group" and buying needleworks that say, "Recovery" to hang on our walls, and we don't really have any friends outside of "Group".

[Mr.Samsa]

It's essentially the same as prescribing for any other medical condition.

In medicine, you have a clue what might work and why before you begin doping someone up. In Psychiatrically-affilliated shadetree psychology, you don't.

...Of course you do, you have the exact same kinds of evidence supporting the effectiveness of the medication in both areas.

How does that work?

It usually starts with trauma, then, several years after the divorce or death, we're still on meds and still shelling out $250/week for "Group" and buying needleworks that say, "Recovery" to hang on our walls, and we don't really have any friends outside of "Group".

I thought you were saying that they prescribed medication. As for church support groups or whatever, maybe they're bullshit I don't know but they have nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry.

[piscator]

It's essentially the same as prescribing for any other medical condition.

In medicine, you have a clue what might work and why before you begin doping someone up. In Psychiatrically-affilliated shadetree psychology, you don't.

...Of course you do, you have the exact same kinds of evidence supporting the effectiveness of the medication in both areas.

How does that work?

It usually starts with trauma, then, several years after the divorce or death, we're still on meds and still shelling out $250/week for "Group" and buying needleworks that say, "Recovery" to hang on our walls, and we don't really have any friends outside of "Group".

I thought you were saying that they prescribed medication. As for church support groups or whatever, maybe they're bullshit I don't know but they have nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry.

Not officially. but everyone in "Group" is on meds. So the "Host" calls her friend the shrink and gets a new scrip if Sue gets married and wants to have kids in between "Group" sessions, but we have to taper off the Xanax slowly, and replace it with Tofenil and Adavan because Sue's dad died in a work-related accident 11 years ago.

[Mr.Samsa]

...Of course you do, you have the exact same kinds of evidence supporting the effectiveness of the medication in both areas.

Can you attempt to expand on your disagreement there? People with the exact same medical training run the exact same types of experiments in order to determine what kinds of treatments are effective using the same kinds of evidence and they develop the same kinds of theories for the cause of the disorders. I don't see why you think they are different.

I thought you were saying that they prescribed medication. As for church support groups or whatever, maybe they're bullshit I don't know but they have nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry.

Not officially. but everyone in "Group" is on meds. So the "Host" calls her friend the shrink and gets a new scrip if Sue gets married and wants to have kids in between "Group" sessions, but we have to taper off the Xanax slowly, and replace it with Tofenil and Adavan because Sue's dad died in a work-related accident 11 years ago.

And the same thing occurs across all of medicine.

[piscator]

...Of course you do, you have the exact same kinds of evidence supporting the effectiveness of the medication in both areas.

Can you attempt to expand on your disagreement there? People with the exact same medical training run the exact same types of experiments in order to determine what kinds of treatments are effective using the same kinds of evidence and they develop the same kinds of theories for the cause of the disorders. I don't see why you think they are different.

I didn't think you knew what you were talking about, and you misdiagnosed it like a champ.

I thought you were saying that they prescribed medication. As for church support groups or whatever, maybe they're bullshit I don't know but they have nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry.

Not officially. but everyone in "Group" is on meds. So the "Host" calls her friend the shrink and gets a new scrip if Sue gets married and wants to have kids in between "Group" sessions, but we have to taper off the Xanax slowly, and replace it with Tofenil and Adavan because Sue's dad died in a work-related accident 11 years ago.

And the same thing occurs across all of medicine.

Except that Sue's not getting better. She saw the shrink 3 years ago. She's paying the counselor who pays the shrink for prescriptions. Her husband has enough of living up and down with a pillhead who can't get clean long enough to have a child like she says she wants, and carries on with his life. Sue continues on her meds and weekly "Group" sessions.

Is that how you do it?

[pErvinalia]

That doesn't sound like anything I've ever seen or heard*. Although, Merka continues to shock me daily in the practices some of its citizens and business engage in.


* - I'm on anti-depressants myself, and know a number of people who are. I don't know anyone who does "group", let alone does it in a Church where the psychiatrist/psychologist isn't even present.

[Mr.Samsa]

That doesn't sound like anything I've ever seen or heard*. Although, Merka continues to shock me daily in the practices some of its citizens and business engage in.


* - I'm on anti-depressants myself, and know a number of people who are. I don't know anyone who does "group", let alone does it in a Church where the psychiatrist/psychologist isn't even present.

Yeah it's such a weird description that I literally have never heard anything like it before. It sounds incredibly dodgy the way it's being pushed.

[mistermack]

I know two people who have psychology degrees.

One works in a library, the other works for the water company, tracking down leaks.

And entirely appropriate uses of a pretty duff qualification.