The pointlesness of trying to support religion with science.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I really wish I could "like" or "rep" posts, because there are some really fine posts here.

[charlou]

Likewise, thumpa.

What if this was a rite of passage?

WARNING: Not for the faint of heart

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Is it a greater or lessor mutilation than female circumcision?

Ask the victim?

I don't think it's an either/or thing.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Likewise, thumpa.

What if this was a rite of passage?

WARNING: Not for the faint of heart

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Is it a greater or lessor mutilation than female circumcision?

Ask the victim?

I don't think it's an either/or thing.

Are you out of your mind, wanting to ask a woman what she thinks about a guy hacking up her genitalia?

[charlou]

Are you out of your mind, wanting to ask a woman what she thinks

Yes. Otherwise known as hysteria, I believe.



(it's usually a woman who does the hacking of female genitalia, btw)


((I'm also interested in what a man think about having his genitalia hacked))

[Robert_S]

If might makes right, then what the fuck would be the point of having the word "right"? Same thing with "is" and "ought".

[Thumpalumpacus]

Are you out of your mind, wanting to ask a woman what she thinks

Yes. Otherwise known as hysteria, I believe.



(it's usually a woman who does the hacking of female genitalia, btw)


((I'm also interested in what a man think about having his genitalia hacked))

I was against my son being circumcised, but I let his mother talk me into it. She refused to take him there, and quite honestly, I felt really shitty that day for listening to her arguments.

Here in America it's usually a male hacking up little boys' penises. I guess all cultures have their strict guidelines, non?

[Geoff]

Are you out of your mind, wanting to ask a woman what she thinks

Yes. Otherwise known as hysteria, I believe.



(it's usually a woman who does the hacking of female genitalia, btw)


((I'm also interested in what a man think about having his genitalia hacked))

Am I right in thinking that lp hasn't yet contributed to this latest train wreck?

Only...I seem to remember a "circumcision thread", long ago and far away...

[Gallstones]

Can you point me towards the nearest natural god then?

That would be me.

Bück dich!

[Girlysprite]

The problem with tampering with the female genetalia is that mostly, there is no real choice involved. Most of these women are poor, and rely upon the community to survive. They often have little to no education and can not take care of themselves, especially if others shun them. So they either have their clit removed and marry and survive, or life a live in the fringes of the community, with a much greater risk of death. How is that a choice?

The value that the community places on women without a clit really needs to change.

Also, on the fact that it is often women doing these procedures; people don't always do what is best for them or their kind. A life long of brainwashing makes them believe in the concept, even if they have suffered the pain themselves. It is sad, but this is the mechanism that allows this to continue.

[Gallstones]

Fair enough. On what reasoning and upon what basis do you presume to judge the morality and ethics of another culture?

On the basis that I am a thinking human being and I refuse to abdicate my thought process simply because judging is considered unfair or rude or what-have-you. We each judge the morality and ethics of others on a daily basis, and I tired long ago of paying lip service to the "it's not right to judge others" crowd.

This is just situational ethics and apologia, not a reasoned argument.

Er, presumably you were analogizing to the subject at hand, which was genital mutilation.

Yes, but I was hoping to clarify the point with the analogy, which is that the motivation for genital mutilation is equally unscientific, and almost as fraught with consequence in the case of FGM, as death.

But it's not death, necessarily, although death sometimes does occur. What does science have to do with cultural memes? People don't live in science, they live in communities, and those communities have cultural practices, sometimes extending back hundreds or thousands of years, and there are consequences to not abiding by the cultural practices of one's community.

Uhm, the internet--ex. forum communities--are cultural memes that are totally facilitated, enabled and maintained by science. Culture is now saturated with, driven by and heavily dependent on technology, so it has gone beyond meme and is now rite of passage in its own right.

Agricultural practices are science, manufacturing is science, medicine is science, transportation is science, media is science, weapons are science, housing and bridges and roads are science..........all these things are also culture.

[camoguard]

Right of passage mutilation is bullshit as much as any culturally predisposed mutilation is bullshit. It's only acceptable if the individual makes the choice in my mind.

[charlou]

Are you out of your mind, wanting to ask a woman what she thinks

Yes. Otherwise known as hysteria, I believe.



(it's usually a woman who does the hacking of female genitalia, btw)


((I'm also interested in what a man think about having his genitalia hacked))

I was against my son being circumcised, but I let his mother talk me into it. She refused to take him there, and quite honestly, I felt really shitty that day for listening to her arguments.

I have two sons, one 24, one 12. When the youngest arrived I was older and wiser and he is intact as he should be, but I very much regret that the eldest was circumcised ... Going along with that decision is something I regret more than anything else I've done.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have two sons, one 24, one 12. When the youngest arrived I was older and wiser and he is intact as he should be, but I very much regret that the eldest was circumcised ... Going along with that decision is something I regret more than anything else I've done.

I hear you. I've learned an awful lot in the last 13 years, most of it good, some of it bad, but all of it useful. I regret kowtowing to his mother, but I know that what's done is done.

[charlou]

The problem with tampering with the female genetalia is that mostly, there is no real choice involved. Most of these women are poor, and rely upon the community to survive. They often have little to no education and can not take care of themselves, especially if others shun them. So they either have their clit removed and marry and survive, or life a live in the fringes of the community, with a much greater risk of death. How is that a choice?

The value that the community places on women without a clit really needs to change.

Also, on the fact that it is often women doing these procedures; people don't always do what is best for them or their kind. A life long of brainwashing makes them believe in the concept, even if they have suffered the pain themselves. It is sad, but this is the mechanism that allows this to continue.

Yes. Ethical awareness based on both personal experience and the confidence to speak out in favour of autonomous freedoms will hopefully prevail eventually.

[charlou]

Male and female circumcision in infancy ... While both are impositions on an unconsenting individual, they each seem to evoke a diverse range of reactions, many of which seem inconsistent between the two, at least on first glance ...