I.... err... agree with fox.

[JimC]

Interesting article, Mai, and I agree with a fair chunk of it. Nitrates and phosphates are a particular problem in promoting algal blooms in both fresh and salt water, and the more of them that can be conserved by composting and other methods, and re-applied as organic fertiliser, the better.

However, the issue of chlorination is misunderstood. In a properly run system, water is chlorinated in a large tank, killing pathogens, then pumped to a holding reservoir where almost all of the chlorine evaporates. This is not always done effectively; if there is a strong chrlorine smell to tap water, then a filter would be a good idea. But it can be a valuable water quality tool if carried out correctly...

[JimC]

Seraph wrote:

Unfortunately, we don't have the resources to keep cows or pigs, nor access to milk, beef, pork, leather shoes and so on that has been procured by slaughtering (and eventually slaughter is inevitably involved) happy animals. In the industrialised countries I think we are part of the vast community.

At least in Australia, all of our lamb, and most of our beef, comes from animals that live on pasture, with any supplementary feed being fairly innocuous such as hay and oats, and little in the way of additives. If you can get organic meat, it will not have additives at all, and most likely will have been looked after better than average. In Victoria, dairy cattle are also "free-range", and you can get organic milk. Also, judging by the relative amounts displayed in supermarkets, free-range eggs and poultry, although a bit more expensive, are more and more popular with consumers. Pork products are more problematic, but there is at least one "free-range" pig farm near Melbourne - we get their products when we can at the local farmer's market...

In other words, it is not all doom and gloom down on the farm...

PS - I know there is a lot of woo and bullshit around the concept of organic food (silly word, IMO), but in practice it represents some important gains in animal welfare, and less food contaminants for the consumer...

[Ele]

... a cynical ploy to cement the support of blacks in his upcoming 2012 election, which is he is bound to lose regardless.
And Faux News' cynical ploy to hilight Obama's cynical ploy. Just more of the same crap... not newsworthy... but it's always good when discussion is sparked to spread awareness about animal cruelty, imo

Obama is just using Vick's "second chance" to demonstrate some BS racial solidarity with African-Americans. Meanwhile, what's he really doing about "levelling the playing field" for the African-Americans and Hispanics who make up 60% of the prison population? nyeh.

With three times as many black people living in prison cells as in college dorms, praising the reemployment opportunity of a sadistic millionaire celebrity is in really BAD taste.

[Ian]

... a cynical ploy to cement the support of blacks in his upcoming 2012 election, which is he is bound to lose regardless.

You sure about that? I think it's unlikely that he'll lose.

You might want to read through your post again. I see a lot more cynicism coming from you than from Obama or Carlson.

[maiforpeace]

Seraph wrote:

Unfortunately, we don't have the resources to keep cows or pigs, nor access to milk, beef, pork, leather shoes and so on that has been procured by slaughtering (and eventually slaughter is inevitably involved) happy animals. In the industrialised countries I think we are part of the vast community.

At least in Australia, all of our lamb, and most of our beef, comes from animals that live on pasture, with any supplementary feed being fairly innocuous such as hay and oats, and little in the way of additives. If you can get organic meat, it will not have additives at all, and most likely will have been looked after better than average. In Victoria, dairy cattle are also "free-range", and you can get organic milk. Also, judging by the relative amounts displayed in supermarkets, free-range eggs and poultry, although a bit more expensive, are more and more popular with consumers. Pork products are more problematic, but there is at least one "free-range" pig farm near Melbourne - we get their products when we can at the local farmer's market...

In other words, it is not all doom and gloom down on the farm...

PS - I know there is a lot of woo and bullshit around the concept of organic food (silly word, IMO), but in practice it represents some important gains in animal welfare, and less food contaminants for the consumer...

It isn't all doom and gloom in Australia maybe...but it's mostly gloom here in the US. Only 1% of all meat, eggs and dairy produced in the US is produced under these conditions. The rest is all factory farmed.

I agree with you about 'organic' - the organic certification in the US is kind of a sham, but it does mean less contaminants and it can be said that most items produced under this certification isn't only humane for animals, it is also usually more humane for the people involved in the production of those products.

[sandinista]

Seraph wrote:

Unfortunately, we don't have the resources to keep cows or pigs, nor access to milk, beef, pork, leather shoes and so on that has been procured by slaughtering (and eventually slaughter is inevitably involved) happy animals. In the industrialised countries I think we are part of the vast community.

At least in Australia, all of our lamb, and most of our beef, comes from animals that live on pasture, with any supplementary feed being fairly innocuous such as hay and oats, and little in the way of additives. If you can get organic meat, it will not have additives at all, and most likely will have been looked after better than average. In Victoria, dairy cattle are also "free-range", and you can get organic milk. Also, judging by the relative amounts displayed in supermarkets, free-range eggs and poultry, although a bit more expensive, are more and more popular with consumers. Pork products are more problematic, but there is at least one "free-range" pig farm near Melbourne - we get their products when we can at the local farmer's market...

In other words, it is not all doom and gloom down on the farm...

PS - I know there is a lot of woo and bullshit around the concept of organic food (silly word, IMO), but in practice it represents some important gains in animal welfare, and less food contaminants for the consumer...

It isn't all doom and gloom in Australia maybe...but it's mostly gloom here in the US. Only 1% of all meat, eggs and dairy produced in the US is produced under these conditions. The rest is all factory farmed.

I agree with you about 'organic' - the organic certification in the US is kind of a sham, but it does mean less contaminants and it can be said that most items produced under this certification isn't only humane for animals, it is also usually more humane for the people involved in the production of those products.

very true, besides, no matter how you slice it, it is doom and gloom for the animals waiting to be slaughtered. The concept of "humane meat" is nothing more than a bullshit line to ease the conscious of meat eaters who also fancy themselves environmentalists or animal lovers. Wanting to have their cake and eat it too.