Well, no shit. Thanks CNN - Voting derail

[Robert_S]

yep..but any idiot can understand that.

Actually, if you are wondering what 'any idiot' can understand, it's that shirking your duty as a voting citizen is going to mean you get what you want from government less often.

I was kidding earlier. I thought someone would catch that I was parroting a skit by George Carlin.

Get working in government or fucking like what you get. Bitching without getting involved is a lot like a twenty-something who still eats at his parents table while bitching about the food they provide.

You must be kidding again. "Your duty as a voting citizen". Come on. Duty? Duty to vote for someone who does not represent you. Do you really believe that the only way "to get what you want " is to work in government? I won't even get into how wrong that is. Your analogy is bullshit. For one, "bitching"?? Really, now calls for social change are referred to (by you) as "bitching". Ridiculous. Secondly, to compare the government to ones parents says alot about your politics.

I still have not heard back from anyone about their local elections. Has every last candidate trying to get in every level of government been bought out by the man?

[sandinista]

Local elections here don't mean much. The chamber of commerce primarily, and other "special interest groups" more or less control the city council.

[Robert_S]

Local elections here don't mean much. The chamber of commerce primarily, and other "special interest groups" more or less control the city council.

Damn, you're pretty much fucked. Sucks to be you I guess.

Edit:

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not gloating, I'm trying to make fun of what seems like a defeatist attitude.

[maiforpeace]

Local elections here don't mean much. The chamber of commerce primarily, and other "special interest groups" more or less control the city council.

Where do you live?

[Svartalf]

yep..but any idiot can understand that.

Actually, if you are wondering what 'any idiot' can understand, it's that shirking your duty as a voting citizen is going to mean you get what you want from government less often.

I was kidding earlier. I thought someone would catch that I was parroting a skit by George Carlin.

Get working in government or fucking like what you get. Bitching without getting involved is a lot like a twenty-something who still eats at his parents table while bitching about the food they provide.

It's not shirking when
a) there's nobody worth voting for
b) not coming at all gathers more attention and sends a stronger message than slipping a bulleting nominating "Léon Blum Jr, or 'ware the Revolution" in the urn

And the parties have thinfs so well arranged that it's near impossible to emerge as a serious new formation...

[Robert_S]

yep..but any idiot can understand that.

Actually, if you are wondering what 'any idiot' can understand, it's that shirking your duty as a voting citizen is going to mean you get what you want from government less often.

I was kidding earlier. I thought someone would catch that I was parroting a skit by George Carlin.

Get working in government or fucking like what you get. Bitching without getting involved is a lot like a twenty-something who still eats at his parents table while bitching about the food they provide.

It's not shirking when
a) there's nobody worth voting for
b) not coming at all gathers more attention and sends a stronger message than slipping a bulleting nominating "Léon Blum Jr, or 'ware the Revolution" in the urn

And the parties have thinfs so well arranged that it's near impossible to emerge as a serious new formation...

If you think that staying home actually will send more of a message, then I suppose that's the correct course

Any outside party won't be a serious contender for a few election cycles. Just because the process is partly, or even mostly corrupt; doesn't necessarily mean it's completely and hopelessly corrupt and/or useless.

It is not the dissatisfaction with the system, it is the defeatism that pisses me off. I know what can happen when a city council has one or two good people in it. I would hate to see other cities miss out on that.

[RuleBritannia]

You don't have to vote to be involved in politics.

[Svartalf]

yep..but any idiot can understand that.

Actually, if you are wondering what 'any idiot' can understand, it's that shirking your duty as a voting citizen is going to mean you get what you want from government less often.

I was kidding earlier. I thought someone would catch that I was parroting a skit by George Carlin.

Get working in government or fucking like what you get. Bitching without getting involved is a lot like a twenty-something who still eats at his parents table while bitching about the food they provide.

It's not shirking when
a) there's nobody worth voting for
b) not coming at all gathers more attention and sends a stronger message than slipping a bulleting nominating "Léon Blum Jr, or 'ware the Revolution" in the urn

And the parties have thinfs so well arranged that it's near impossible to emerge as a serious new formation...

If you think that staying home actually will send more of a message, then I suppose that's the correct course

Any outside party won't be a serious contender for a few election cycles. Just because the process is partly, or even mostly corrupt; doesn't necessarily mean it's completely and hopelessly corrupt and/or useless.

It is not the dissatisfaction with the system, it is the defeatism that pisses me off. I know what can happen when a city council has one or two good people in it. I would hate to see other cities miss out on that.

Bad thing is that, to the best of my knowledge, it's correct.

Media and politicians pay great attention to how many people can be roused to come vote, or not (abstention rate)... that part is always mentioned .

But when you try to see how many of the cast votes were blanks or nulls, that kind of data is suddenly hard to find, and there's no differenciation between blanks (volutary or mistaken), nulls from obvious mistakes, and nulls apparently purposeful... nobody pays attention to that.

So the question whether you'll send it loud and clear that you hate the system or the guys running for office, the better way is obvious (short of throwing bombs in parliament)

[sandinista]

Local elections here don't mean much. The chamber of commerce primarily, and other "special interest groups" more or less control the city council.

Damn, you're pretty much fucked. Sucks to be you I guess.

Edit:

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not gloating, I'm trying to make fun of what seems like a defeatist attitude.

No, not defeatist at all. I suppose you never read any of my other posts. I am saying that you can be politically active without participating voting. Never thought that concept would be so hard for people to understand. Politics does not begin or end with a useless vote.

You don't have to vote to be involved in politics.

At least someone gets it.

Oh, and maiforpeace, canaduh.

[Robert_S]

Local elections here don't mean much. The chamber of commerce primarily, and other "special interest groups" more or less control the city council.

Damn, you're pretty much fucked. Sucks to be you I guess.

Edit:

Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not gloating, I'm trying to make fun of what seems like a defeatist attitude.

No, not defeatist at all. I suppose you never read any of my other posts. I am saying that you can be politically active without participating voting. Never thought that concept would be so hard for people to understand. Politics does not begin or end with a useless vote.

You don't have to vote to be involved in politics.

At least someone gets it.

Oh, and maiforpeace, canaduh.

I understand that voting and government work is not the only, and not neccasarily the most effective means to effect change. But it's not an either/or decision.

Just tell me that you'll keep an open mind and not let a opportunity to use the ballot box to a good end slip by because you've reached the conclusion that it's worthless before you've really looked into it on any particular election. Tell me that and I'll move on to another subject.

[sandinista]

I actually gave up voting (Was an easy habit to quit) when, a few years back, I went to fill out my ballot and got checked for ID. My ID had the incorrect address on it and was outdated at which point I was asked to swear on the bible that I was who I said I was. That was kind of the final straw. This was in a federal election. I knew far before that, that voting was a sham, and was actually pulling the whole "vote for this fucker so that fucker doesn't get in to office BS" by request of my partner. I don't think it is an either/or. I know lots of politically active folks who vote. Generally they know its a sham as well, but do it out of habit or in the hopes that someday someone other than the liberal/conservatives (same thing) will win. Sad thing is, when there was an NDP provincial government they acted the same as the liberals/conservatives. No surprise there. I've "looked into' elections for many years, the conclusion I've reached is sound as far as I'm concerned. There are so many problems with the "electoral system" (term limits, parties, funding, advertising, pressure groups, etc) it needs to be destroyed and built in a different way.

[Don't Panic]

Topic split for voting derail discussion. Uhm...guys...I may have somehow lost a post or two in the process...

There were 68 posts before you split the thread. When you had done, there were 53, so you lost up to 15, including one of Ian's in which he is alleged to have said "vote and you won't get fucked over", which he did not. O well, we get what we pay for. :sighsm:

Missing posts have been restored, they were hiding on page two.

FBM, don't worry about it, you can't permanently lose posts without deleting them, and you need to confirm that so it can't happen accidentally.