Here comes the other economic shoe dropping...

[Hermit]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

Yeah, sure, as do higher wages, and what's bad for business is bad for everyone, blah blah blah. I've heard all this crap before. It's older than von Hayek, and it doesn't match with what's happening in the real world.

[Atheist-Lite]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

Yeah, sure, as do higher wages, and what's bad for business is bad for everyone, blah blah blah. I've heard all this crap before. It's older than von Hayek, and it doesn't match with what's happening in the real world.

If the Chinese worker is able to work twice as hard as the American worker simply because they've a long metal tube pointed at them maybe that's what the American worker needs to compete?

[Coito ergo sum]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

Yeah, sure, as do higher wages, and what's bad for business is bad for everyone, blah blah blah. I've heard all this crap before. It's older than von Hayek, and it doesn't match with what's happening in the real world.

It does match what is happening in the real world.

It's not "what's bad for business is bad for everyone."

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people. It should be very easy to conceptualize: if you owned a business, and you were thinking about hiring an employee, and the government increased your taxes by 15%, raised your licensing fees, increased your insurance costs, and imposed regulatory requirements that added thousands of dollars worth of expense to your balance sheet, would you be more likely or less likely to want to hire an employee?

It's economics 101.

[drl2]

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Instead, we should follow our present course, which involves tax cuts, deregulation (or lax-to-nonexistent enforcement), shrinking wages and benefits, rising costs, and record-setting corporate profits, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

[Coito ergo sum]

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Instead, we should follow our present course, which involves tax cuts, deregulation (or lax-to-nonexistent enforcement), shrinking wages and benefits, rising costs, and record-setting corporate profits, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Errr...our present course does not involve tax cuts, or deregulation. Republicans have proposed tax cuts, but, who has implemented them?

Record setting profits? What financial markets are you watching?

But, even if what you say is true - could you explain how raising taxes, increasing the costs of regulation, increasing the costs of insurance and benefits, etc. on businesses will help the situation?

[Hermit]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

Yeah, sure, as do higher wages, and what's bad for business is bad for everyone, blah blah blah. I've heard all this crap before. It's older than von Hayek, and it doesn't match with what's happening in the real world.

It does match what is happening in the real world.

It's not "what's bad for business is bad for everyone."

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people. It should be very easy to conceptualize: if you owned a business, and you were thinking about hiring an employee, and the government increased your taxes by 15%, raised your licensing fees, increased your insurance costs, and imposed regulatory requirements that added thousands of dollars worth of expense to your balance sheet, would you be more likely or less likely to want to hire an employee?

It's economics trickle-down economy 101.

and it's a load of bullshit.

[JimC]

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Instead, we should follow our present course, which involves tax cuts, deregulation (or lax-to-nonexistent enforcement), shrinking wages and benefits, rising costs, and record-setting corporate profits, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Errr...our present course does not involve tax cuts, or deregulation. Republicans have proposed tax cuts, but, who has implemented them?

Record setting profits? What financial markets are you watching?

But, even if what you say is true - could you explain how raising taxes, increasing the costs of regulation, increasing the costs of insurance and benefits, etc. on businesses will help the situation?

Companies, and all those engaged in free-enterprise would prefer taxation to be as close to zero as possible...

The rest of the population would like it to be as high as possible without killing the goose that laid the golden egg...

There should be a keenly fought political compromise; unfortunately, the media (controlled as it is by the business end of the spectrum) will do its best to manipulate public opinion in a rather obvious direction. Money doesn't just talk, it fucking roars...

[Clinton Huxley]

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people. It should be very easy to conceptualize: if you owned a business, and you were thinking about hiring an employee, and the government increased your taxes by 15%, raised your licensing fees, increased your insurance costs, and imposed regulatory requirements that added thousands of dollars worth of expense to your balance sheet, would you be more likely or less likely to want to hire an employee?
It's economics 101.

Or, to summarise, employers should be allowed to exploit workers without let or hindrance.

[Jason]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

When you tax a thing, you make it more expensive. That's the idea behind, say, cigarette taxes - raise the price to discourage people from buying them. Yet, you would pretend that the concept somehow becomes inapplicable to any other product or service.

False. Gasoline taxes in the United States are used to fund transportation projects and are thus intended to support the infrastructure the automobiles drive on.

[Jason]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

Yeah, sure, as do higher wages, and what's bad for business is bad for everyone, blah blah blah. I've heard all this crap before. It's older than von Hayek, and it doesn't match with what's happening in the real world.

It does match what is happening in the real world.

It's not "what's bad for business is bad for everyone."

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people. It should be very easy to conceptualize: if you owned a business, and you were thinking about hiring an employee, and the government increased your taxes by 15%, raised your licensing fees, increased your insurance costs, and imposed regulatory requirements that added thousands of dollars worth of expense to your balance sheet, would you be more likely or less likely to want to hire an employee?

It's economics 101.

False. Every business wants to maximize income and minimize costs thus achieving the greatest financial efficiency, or return on investment, possible. No business wants to hire another employee unless it has to which dictates an increase in demand which in turn dictates an increase in quality of life of the average consumer.

Economics 102

[Coito ergo sum]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

Yeah, sure, as do higher wages, and what's bad for business is bad for everyone, blah blah blah. I've heard all this crap before. It's older than von Hayek, and it doesn't match with what's happening in the real world.

It does match what is happening in the real world.

It's not "what's bad for business is bad for everyone."

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people. It should be very easy to conceptualize: if you owned a business, and you were thinking about hiring an employee, and the government increased your taxes by 15%, raised your licensing fees, increased your insurance costs, and imposed regulatory requirements that added thousands of dollars worth of expense to your balance sheet, would you be more likely or less likely to want to hire an employee?

It's economics trickle-down economy 101.

and it's a load of bullshit.

No, it isn't trickle-down economics. Supply and demand principles apply to any modern economic theory, classical, keynesian, or whatever. But, if that's your argument, that's your argument. "I heard people say 'trickle down' economics is bullshit, so I say it's a load of bullshit." That's all you've demonstrated.

Economics 101: http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Econom ... _lmf_tit_1 - check the table of contents.

[Coito ergo sum]

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Instead, we should follow our present course, which involves tax cuts, deregulation (or lax-to-nonexistent enforcement), shrinking wages and benefits, rising costs, and record-setting corporate profits, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people.

Errr...our present course does not involve tax cuts, or deregulation. Republicans have proposed tax cuts, but, who has implemented them?

Record setting profits? What financial markets are you watching?

But, even if what you say is true - could you explain how raising taxes, increasing the costs of regulation, increasing the costs of insurance and benefits, etc. on businesses will help the situation?

Companies, and all those engaged in free-enterprise would prefer taxation to be as close to zero as possible...

So would anyone earning an income. If my income is $50,000 a year, I would rather be taxed 1% than 5%, all else being equal.

The rest of the population would like it to be as high as possible without killing the goose that laid the golden egg...

Everyone wants their own taxes to be low, and other people's taxes to be high. Naturally. "Companies" are not real things. They're run by people, and those people have the same motivators as any individual.

There should be a keenly fought political compromise; unfortunately, the media (controlled as it is by the business end of the spectrum) will do its best to manipulate public opinion in a rather obvious direction. Money doesn't just talk, it fucking roars...

That doesn't change the fact that if someone is selling widgets, and you increase the cost of doing business, then that puts upward pressure on prices.

[Azathoth]

If you lot weren't so adverse to the idea of VAT it might help. Just saying

[Coito ergo sum]

In the real world, however, people work for businesses. So, it would make sense for us to want businesses to be successful. It does not make sense to raise taxes, fees and regulatory costs on businesses, and then look about in dismay, wondering why they're not hiring people. It should be very easy to conceptualize: if you owned a business, and you were thinking about hiring an employee, and the government increased your taxes by 15%, raised your licensing fees, increased your insurance costs, and imposed regulatory requirements that added thousands of dollars worth of expense to your balance sheet, would you be more likely or less likely to want to hire an employee?
It's economics 101.

Or, to summarise, employers should be allowed to exploit workers without let or hindrance.

You must have been reading someone else's post. That summary certainly has nothing at all to do with anything I wrote. I thought you Brits thought of yourselves as more enlightened and intelligent. It's not showing.

[Coito ergo sum]

Higher taxes hurt businesses. Very simple concept.

When you tax a thing, you make it more expensive. That's the idea behind, say, cigarette taxes - raise the price to discourage people from buying them. Yet, you would pretend that the concept somehow becomes inapplicable to any other product or service.

False. Gasoline taxes in the United States are used to fund transportation projects and are thus intended to support the infrastructure the automobiles drive on.

Wait - False?

You think that gasoline taxes being used to fund transportation projects means that raising taxes on gasoline doesn't make gasoline more expensive? And, you think that means that higher prices don't exert downward pressure on demand? Is that what you think?