You cunt! I mean, you dick! I mean...

[Animavore]

It might be because of inheritance. Being a bastard would've hurt a man more than a woman in the old days as women didn't generally inherit and were expected to be married off so being a bastard may not of hurt them as much. But to be a bastard man meant you were without inheritance and therefore without land or property and perhaps unsuitable for marriage.

At least that's how things work in Game of Thrones

EDIT: Pappa got there first.

[hadespussercats]

Perhaps because a known bastard was usually a child that was acknowleded, and a nobleman rarely had a reason to acknowledge an illegitimate daughter but they might need to acknowledge a son for purposes of heredity.

Ah! I thought being a bastard was just the illegitimate conception, not subsequent recognition.

Is "bastard" different from "love-child" then? I think "love-children" were traditionally seen as having personality markers of their sinful birth-- impetuousness, lustiness, quick temper, and so forth...

[hadespussercats]

It might be because of inheritance. Being a bastard would've hurt a man more than a woman in the old days as women didn't generally inherit and were expected to be married off so being a bastard may not of hurt them as much. But to be a bastard man meant you were without inheritance and therefore without land or property and perhaps unsuitable for marriage.

At least that's how things work in Game of Thrones

EDIT: Pappa got there first.

I should probably read that.

Still, a girl with no family or property wasn't exactly marriageable, either.

[Audley Strange]

Oh yes and some words which had no power now have more. Such things fascinate me. I mean which is worse, Nigger or Coon? Is Kike worse than yid? I mean I know they are all offensive terms but I could see a situation where you might get away with using nigger towards a black person (not that I'm saying you should, or), but I can think of none where coon would possibly be acceptable.

Why is "I'm going to rape you" unacceptable but "I'm going to kill you" common parlance and "I'm going to enslave you" heard rarely outside bad HRTotica?

It is obviously about social taboo rather than the words themselves and it does seem these taboos are often politically motivated. This is the contradiction, by making words taboo you give them the power you are trying to stop them having.

That's why I'm bloody minded about free speech.

[Rum]

My dad tells the story of being invited to a fellow soldier's home for Christmas in 1944 when he was a young recruit at the end of WW2 (because they were based so far from my dad's home). He and his mate were only 18 or so and had just had basic training and been exposed to its 'hardening' effects.

They sat down to Christmas lunch and his mate blurted out to his mother 'pass the fucking salt would you'?

His father made him to leave the house for the remainder of lunch, leaving my dad eating his in a silent excruciatingly embarrassing atmosphere..

Some words still have power, though not as much as they used to perhaps.

Yikes. I don't know the whole story, but sounds like they were awful hard on the mate. Of course, I'm saying this from the future, with less care about "fuck" and more care about the mental trauma of basic training.

'Fuck' even when I was a child in the late 50s was still a 'taboo' word. You never heard the word cunt being used ever and I would have been shocked even as a teenager to hear it. Times have changed I guess. Now one hears the word fuck on the street all the time and it only bothers me in that it displays a lack of creativity with language, but I still feel uncomfortable if I am with one of my very elderly parents and I hear it - and know they have.

I am not sure there is an equivalent of the shock value of those words any more. Oddly the closest might be the breaking of PC language rules which would have a similar impact these days. If you referred to someone as a 'cripple' or a 'spastic' or other words which have been more or less banished you are more likely to cause offense I suspect.

[hadespussercats]

My dad tells the story of being invited to a fellow soldier's home for Christmas in 1944 when he was a young recruit at the end of WW2 (because they were based so far from my dad's home). He and his mate were only 18 or so and had just had basic training and been exposed to its 'hardening' effects.

They sat down to Christmas lunch and his mate blurted out to his mother 'pass the fucking salt would you'?

His father made him to leave the house for the remainder of lunch, leaving my dad eating his in a silent excruciatingly embarrassing atmosphere..

Some words still have power, though not as much as they used to perhaps.

Yikes. I don't know the whole story, but sounds like they were awful hard on the mate. Of course, I'm saying this from the future, with less care about "fuck" and more care about the mental trauma of basic training.

'Fuck' even when I was a child in the late 50s was still a 'taboo' word. You never heard the word cunt being used ever and I would have been shocked even as a teenager to hear it. Times have changed I guess. Now one hears the word fuck on the street all the time and it only bothers me in that it displays a lack of creativity with language, but I still feel uncomfortable if I am with one of my very elderly parents and I hear it - and know they have.

I am not sure there is an equivalent of the shock value of those words any more. Oddly it is probably the breaking of PC language rules which would have a similar impact these days. If you referred to someone as a 'cripple' or a 'spastic' or other words which have been more or less banished you are more likely to cause offense I suspect.

It's only since Ricky Gervaise started getting into trouble with words like 'mong' that I realized 'spastic' was a bad word.

I only knew it as 'spazz' growing up-- it was just the word for someone who was acting hyper and silly, or who was forgetful.

One of those insults that seemed to come from nowhere...

[Audley Strange]

@Audley-- Thanks!

I don't know-- I've seen a pussy take a serious beating and still get the job done! I'd like to see a dick attempt the same, without getting "over-"emotional.

HAR!

Funny, you spell "sissy" as "cissy"-- brings a whole new meaning to "cis-gendered."

Oh you noticed. I suppose being labelled cis-gendered is shorter than "not one of the following walking abominations of sexual shame", it just seems to me another needless taxonomy, it's the anal bureaucratisation of civility which serves to define us by our differences rather than commonalities.

How do you feel about men being dicks?

Personally? Better than being about men feeling dicks.

I see nothing wrong with it. It's shorthand. Any dick that goes all pussy about being called a dick is a cunt.

I mean isn't that sentence fucking awesome?
Oh, and a general question-- is "bastard" really gendered as an insult? I've heard people say "bastard" is the male version of "bitch." But, the word "bastard" wasn't gendered in its original meaning, i don't think. Why aren't women bastards?[/quote]

Nah bastard isn't gendered as an insult now. As Pappa and Ani point out it was about heredity. Now consider this. Bastards were villified because they implied a threat to the wife's children to be the inheritors of domain. It would seem to me that bastard was a word that women were mere likely to use in contempt. Funnily enough cuckoo has never been used in a similar manner, even though it is has always been commonplace for women to sire children who were not their husbands and insinuate them into the family home.

[PsychoSerenity]

You never heard the word cunt being used ever and I would have been shocked even as a teenager to hear it.

If you never heard it used, then how would you, or anyone, know what it meant?

[Seabass]

It's interesting that offensive words seem to carry so much more weight in the US than they do over here....

I think you're wrong. Maybe cunt has more impact over here, but I think you could say the reverse is true with some other words, like motherfucker for example.

I really don't get where this notion comes from, that Americans are prudish and uptight when it comes to profanity, honestly. I mean, have you seen American TV? Stand up comedy? Music? There is no shortage of profanity here, trust me.

[Audley Strange]

It's interesting that offensive words seem to carry so much more weight in the US than they do over here....

I think you're wrong. Maybe cunt has more impact over here, but I think you could say the reverse is true with some other words, like motherfucker for example.

I really don't get where this notion comes from, that Americans are prudish and uptight when it comes to profanity, honestly. I mean, have you seen American TV? Stand up comedy? Music? There is no shortage of profanity here, trust me.

T.V. might not have been the best example. I know that HBO and cable channels are not as restrictive as network channels, but those networks are stifling. Music movies and comedy, certainly.

I don't think the reverse is true re cunt or any other commonly used swearwords, it seems that cunt specifically and singularly is problematic to North Americans.

[Seabass]

It's interesting that offensive words seem to carry so much more weight in the US than they do over here....

I think you're wrong. Maybe cunt has more impact over here, but I think you could say the reverse is true with some other words, like motherfucker for example.

I really don't get where this notion comes from, that Americans are prudish and uptight when it comes to profanity, honestly. I mean, have you seen American TV? Stand up comedy? Music? There is no shortage of profanity here, trust me.

T.V. might not have been the best example. I know that HBO and cable channels are not as restrictive as network channels, but those networks are stifling. Music movies and comedy, certainly.

I don't think the reverse is true re cunt or any other commonly used swearwords, it seems that cunt specifically and singularly is problematic to North Americans.

There are three networks (four if you count Fox (not to be confused with Fox News Channel)). A typical cable packaged has like 400+ channels...

[rachelbean]

While cable channels in the U.S. like HBO or Showtime push the envelope with language, in general much less is considered acceptable than the same type of shows over here. People say things like "cock" in prime-time even shows that kids watch, that was something that surprised me. I've seen many asses and even some balls on normal comedy shows

And yeah, "cunt" is definitely something that is still considered shocking. I remember seeing Shaun of the Dead in the theater and Nick Frost's character at the beginning of the movie saying, "Can I get any of you cunts a drink?" and I started cracking up, and someone behind me said out-loud, "this is disgusting".

I don't think that British people use the word cunt more casually has anything to do with sexism or misogyny, it's just not considered as horrible a word, but attitudes towards body parts in general are more laid back

[rachelbean]

While cable channels in the U.S. like HBO or Showtime push the envelope with language, in general much less is considered acceptable than the same type of shows over here. People say things like "cock" in prime-time even shows that kids watch, that was something that surprised me. I've seen many asses and even some balls on normal comedy shows

And yeah, "cunt" is definitely something that is still considered shocking. I remember seeing Shaun of the Dead in the theater and Nick Frost's character at the beginning of the movie saying, "Can I get any of you cunts a drink?" and I started cracking up, and someone behind me said out-loud, "this is disgusting".

I don't think that British people use the word cunt more casually has anything to do with sexism or misogyny, it's just not considered as horrible a word, but attitudes towards body parts in general are more laid back

[Rum]

You never heard the word cunt being used ever and I would have been shocked even as a teenager to hear it.

If you never heard it used, then how would you, or anyone, know what it meant?

A tad tiny droplet of hyperbole.. Mr Pedant.

[Robert_S]

While cable channels in the U.S. like HBO or Showtime push the envelope with language, in general much less is considered acceptable than the same type of shows over here. People say things like "cock" in prime-time even shows that kids watch, that was something that surprised me. I've seen many asses and even some balls on normal comedy shows

And yeah, "cunt" is definitely something that is still considered shocking. I remember seeing Shaun of the Dead in the theater and Nick Frost's character at the beginning of the movie saying, "Can I get any of you cunts a drink?" and I started cracking up, and someone behind me said out-loud, "this is disgusting".

I don't think that British people use the word cunt more casually has anything to do with sexism or misogyny, it's just not considered as horrible a word, but attitudes towards body parts in general are more laid back

But "pussy" has never been considered nearly as taboo. Maybe the difference is that in the US "cunt" is a stronger form of "bitch" with a genital reference and two hard consonant sounds at either end of the one syllable?