Guns used for lawful self-defense Pt. 5

[Blind groper]

To Collector

The police do not have guns to make them safer. If personal safety was the goal, they would simply stay away from trouble spots. The police have guns to make them more effective in doing their jobs. IMHO, their possession of guns almost certainly increases the risk to their lives, and we all know that being a policeman/woman is a hazardous occupation.

Non police, though, are not there to fight crime. Indeed, with a lack of training and resources, they would simply make things worse. So non police should not carry guns to make them more effective in fighting crime. That is the job of the police. Much smarter not to have guns, and thus improve their chances of dying of old age.

[Seth]

To Seth, for about the millionth time.
Anecdotes are not data. With 100,000 shootings in the USA each year, quoting a tiny number of stories about shootings that match your prejudices (probably from the NRA web site) shows nothing more than the fact that you do not know the difference between evidence and bullshit.

They aren't anecdotes, they are reports of actual events that comprise data points against your claims.

And you have been utterly unable to refute or debunk a single one of them. The data continues to mount.

[Seth]

Today in the UK zero people used firearms defensively statistically maybe 1 or even 2 people will have been murdered

In the US today on average around about 35 people will have been murdered and according to Seth about 2000 were prevented by 'law-abiding citizens'

Armed-self defence really makes you safer not

Yes it does because without arms there would be thousands MORE crimes successfully committed. Murder, you see, is not the only reason for armed self defense, although I know you like to build strawmen proclaiming as much.

[Seth]

To Collector

The police do not have guns to make them safer.

You are so unbelievably full of shit it's a wonder they don't declare you a Superfund site. You know absolutely nothing whatever about law enforcement, so shut the fuck up.

[Blind groper]

You are so unbelievably full of shit it's a wonder they don't declare you a Superfund site. You know absolutely nothing whatever about law enforcement, so shut the fuck up.

Always nice to see that Seth does not change. No vestige of intelligence ever creeps into his posts.

[Seth]

You are so unbelievably full of shit it's a wonder they don't declare you a Superfund site. You know absolutely nothing whatever about law enforcement, so shut the fuck up.

Always nice to see that Seth does not change. No vestige of intelligence ever creeps into his posts.

It's pitiful to see that you are utterly impenetrable to facts. It's a sorry society that has your ilk in it.

[Blind groper]

Seth

I am indeed open to facts. I am, however, very resistant to NRA propaganda. Nor do I consider cherry picked anecdotes as 'facts'.

One thing I am even more resistant to, is insults as argument. They simply show that the person delivering the insult has no argument.

[JimC]

I could give a shit about statistics. I don't live my life based on probability.

I do, its the basis of being a rational human being

That's where you've lost Collector...

[Collector1337]

I could give a shit about statistics. I don't live my life based on probability.

I do, its the basis of being a rational human being

HA!

So, in addition to hypochondria, are there any other mental illnesses you suffer from, other than low IQ of course?

OCD perhaps? No doubt Agoraphobia as well.

It's hard to believe there's a human being who even exists who is as pathetic as you are.

[Collector1337]

Seth

I am indeed open to facts. I am, however, very resistant to NRA propaganda. Nor do I consider cherry picked anecdotes as 'facts'.

One thing I am even more resistant to, is insults as argument. They simply show that the person delivering the insult has no argument.

No you are not open to facts.

It's a fucking joke such a thing would even come out of your mouth.

Seth is a cop. They most definitely carry guns for their own personal defense and safety.

You denying that, is like denying the existence of gravity.

[Blind groper]

To Collector

I fully understand why you say cops carry hand guns for personal safety. On one level, you are correct. However, my thoughts were going beyond that level. Here in NZ, where hand guns are banned, most cops do not carry guns, and they have a rate of death that is way lower than that of cops in the line of duty in the USA. The same applies in Britain where guns are not normally carried, and the line of duty death rate is also way lower than for cops in the USA.

If you truly want to protect your cops from death in the line of duty, you would ban all hand guns in civilian hands. If a cop individually had a strong need to protect him/herself from death by violence, then the best way would be to not become a cop in the first place, and definitely not an American cop, where too damn many guns in civilian hands make their profession very dangerous.

[aspire1670]

Seth

I am indeed open to facts. I am, however, very resistant to NRA propaganda. Nor do I consider cherry picked anecdotes as 'facts'.

One thing I am even more resistant to, is insults as argument. They simply show that the person delivering the insult has no argument.

Seth is a cop.

LOLWUT. Young Seth was never a gun toting career cop. This is why he has to apply for concealed carry permits. A bona fide retired cop has the right to carry a concealed gun.

[Collector1337]

Seth

I am indeed open to facts. I am, however, very resistant to NRA propaganda. Nor do I consider cherry picked anecdotes as 'facts'.

One thing I am even more resistant to, is insults as argument. They simply show that the person delivering the insult has no argument.

Seth is a cop.

LOLWUT. Young Seth was never a gun toting career cop. This is why he has to apply for concealed carry permits. A bona fide retired cop has the right to carry a concealed gun.

Isn't it nice how you can just say whatever you want, without actually having any idea what you're talking about?

[Blind groper]

To Collector, who claims I do not use facts.

Here are a few facts for you. Some time back, Seth tried to argue that giving up hand guns would just result in the same murders, but with other weapons. I decided to look this up.

1. After firearms, the greatest number of murders in the USA are done with stabbings. 2,000 of them.

2. The total number of stabbings each year in the USA is over 3 million. That is : 1500 stabbings for each stabbing death. The British figures on the internet are a bit lower, 400 stabbings per stabbing death, and to be conservative, I will go with these.

3. There are 100,000 shootings each year in the USA and 20,000 deaths from those shootings. So there are 5 shootings for each death. Since there are 8,000 hand gun murders each year, that translates into 40,000 attempts to murder with hand guns (at 5 shootings per shooting death).

4. If all hand guns were removed from the civilian population, which is what I am saying should be done, then Seth would argue that the 40,000 attempted murders with hand guns would simply be transferred to another weapon. If we go with the second most lethal weapon, knives, that is 40,000 stabbings per year. If we calculate based on the more conservative British figure (400 stabbings per stabbing death), then 40,000 attempts means 100 stabbing deaths.

5. This means that getting rid of hand guns in the USA will reduce those murders from 8,000 per year to only 100. Lives saved = 7,900 per year.

Concluson : getting rid of hand guns is the logical and rational thing to do.

[Seth]

Seth

I am indeed open to facts. I am, however, very resistant to NRA propaganda. Nor do I consider cherry picked anecdotes as 'facts'.

One thing I am even more resistant to, is insults as argument. They simply show that the person delivering the insult has no argument.

Seth is a cop.

LOLWUT. Young Seth was never a gun toting career cop. This is why he has to apply for concealed carry permits. A bona fide retired cop has the right to carry a concealed gun.

Wrong.
I retired (for medical reasons) long before that law went into effect, so I got a permit and have kept it up ever since. Plus, the law only applies if you retire with 25 years from the same agency. I worked for several different agencies throughout my career.