Untold History of the United States

[JimC]

I've seen episodes 1-8, and I would have to say this could very well be the most biased, ideologically tainted "historical" account I have ever seen. They lay the blame for the Cold War entirely at America's feet, and portray the Soviets as hapless victims. Hilarious.

Oliver Stone is a ridiculous man.

Such a position is certainly absurd, I quite agree.

But so is a portrayal of the US as a white-hatted warrior for truth, justice and democracy, whose motivations are as pure as the driven snow. That ideological position has had a lot of air play over the years...

Nuanced and realistic appraisals go out the window in the polarised debate on these issues...

Change the white hat to a cowboy hat and you've got it. This is pretty much the image of the U.S. that's taught in history class and portrayed in the popular media. Even proposing the suggestion that we might possibly have perhaps done something that wasn't maybe the best thing to do, and you're a fucking traitor. We're the good guys, we're always the good guys, and not just good guys but heroes every one of us. And even if we do something bad, well, it was with the best of intentions, surely. Because after all we're the good guys. And heroes.
Witness Fox News's Shep Smith, when it was discovered that we waterboarded prisoners (and illegally held prisoners at that). "We don't torture people!" he said, outraged. "We're the good guys! We do not torture!" And this was met with a collective shrug. Nobody cared. It's okay if we torture people, apparently. Y'now. Because it's us. It doesn't count.
Witness Bill O'Reilly putting his fingers in his ears and yelling "La-la-la-la-la!" as loud as he could while Ron Paul tries to put the 9-11 attack in historical context for him. "I don't need a history lesson!" he said angrily. And yet a history lesson is precisely what he needed.

I guess that Seabass's point was that you, and a significant chunk of America, do not share the "white cowboy hat" view of the US, Tatt...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[tattuchu]

I guess that Seabass's point was that you, and a significant chunk of America, do not share the "white cowboy hat" view of the US, Tatt...

My impression is that it's not a significant chunk but more like a small minority.
We are the good guys, by the way. Or at least we're supposed to be. We ought to be. It really bothers me when I found out we're not. And even finding out we're not is difficult, what with all the flags waving in my face

[sandinista]

My impression is that it's not a significant chunk but more like a small minority.

true.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[sandinista]

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[JimC]

I guess that Seabass's point was that you, and a significant chunk of America, do not share the "white cowboy hat" view of the US, Tatt...

My impression is that it's not a significant chunk but more like a small minority.
We are the good guys, by the way. Or at least we're supposed to be. We ought to be. It really bothers me when I found out we're not. And even finding out we're not is difficult, what with all the flags waving in my face

I'm really meaning people who are not "boosters" for the US, who can see many examples of things where the US was at fault, while still appreciating many other aspects of your way of life. Those who unthinkingly accept the "US can do no wrong" premise are not a majority, I would hope...

[pErvinalia]

Tat, it's not that much different from high school curricula around the world.

Proof for that? In my experience, Australia is nothing like that.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tat, it's not that much different from high school curricula around the world.

Proof for that? In my experience, Australia is nothing like that.

I'll just pop out several hundred high school history texts in a few dozen languages, shall I?

[pErvinalia]

Or you can just keep making empty claims. Whatever works for you.

[Seabass]

I guess that Seabass's point was that you, and a significant chunk of America, do not share the "white cowboy hat" view of the US, Tatt...

My impression is that it's not a significant chunk but more like a small minority.
We are the good guys, by the way. Or at least we're supposed to be. We ought to be. It really bothers me when I found out we're not. And even finding out we're not is difficult, what with all the flags waving in my face

You mean the small minority that voted Obama into the White House to...... stop torture, bring the troops home, close Guantanamo, etc?

Honestly, I think you have a very distorted and pessimistic view of American society.

[JimC]

Tat, it's not that much different from high school curricula around the world.

Proof for that? In my experience, Australia is nothing like that.

History textbooks in Oz used to be maintainers of the status quo...

That has tended to change, though...

(makes me glad I teach maths - a quadratic equation is a fucking quadratic equation, end of story...)

[pErvinalia]

The textbook isn't the most important part. The curricula is. There is no such thing as Australian exceptionalism in our curricula. There's no such phenomenon in our society, outside John Howard's and a couple of his lib buddies heads.

[JimC]

The textbook isn't the most important part. The curricula is. There is no such thing as Australian exceptionalism in our curricula. There's no such phenomenon in our society, outside John Howard's and a couple of his lib buddies heads.

Not in the US league, sure, but I think you're underestimating it...