Obama's speech today at NASA

[Coito ergo sum]

It was shit.

Firstly, all NASA will do in future is a 50/50 split of robotic missions and tech infrastructure (telecoms, GPS etc). He basically handed space to corporations, and the Mars prophecy is bullshit. America is not going to Mars. China is.

Not seen the broadcast but robotic missions are far better VFM than manned anyway.

Besides, China ain't going to Mars, India is.....

Imagine, the first Test being played on Mars.......

If the West (Europe and the US) doesn't go to Mars in the next 25 years, then nobody is. China and India have not shown themselves to be competent at this stuff. China's rockets have a high failure rate, and the Indians can't hardly build a car, let alone a spacecraft.

I wish Europe and the US could get together on this. If we could pool resources, and put real money - like $500 billion into a mission, we'd fucking be there in no time. It never ceases to amaze me how much money we are willing to flush down the toilet, and then as soon as the talk is about giving more money to NASA, then it's "whoa whoa whoa! wait a minute THAT is a waste...."

[Coito ergo sum]

Indeed, NASA is an excellent way of funnelling subsidies to the aerospace industry......

And a better industry to subsidize can hardly be found. I applaud subsidies to aerospace and robotics. It's the wave of the future. Better them than fucking AIG and the rest of the fraudsters and hucksters.

[oddmanout]

I've been a big proponent of the space industry for some time, and it's been my position that it is a great way to create excellent jobs in sectors of the economy that actually mean something: technology, industry, materials, superconductors, computers, robotics, AI, rocketry, fuels, aeronautics, astronautics....the list is endless. It's a way to provide an industry for young people to get into that requires science and technology. It's not an industry that is favored by most people, liberals and conservatives alike, because they don't see it as beneficial and they think it's more about ego than anything else. I disagree on that point wholeheartedly. In my view, the future of humanity depends on space flight, exploration and colonization, and there is no point in waiting.

I agree wholeheartedly with President Obama when he said, "We have to fix our economy. We need to close our deficits, but for pennies on the dollar, the space program has fueled jobs and entire industries. For pennies on the dollar, the space program has improved our lives, advanced our societies, strengthened our economy and inspired generations of Americans, and I have no doubt that NASA can continue to fulfill this role," Obama said.

Apparently, Obama said he advocates sending astronauts on missions to asteroids by 2025. A mission to orbit Mars could happen by 2035. I find these goals laudable, but I don't think it goes far enough, and I think he is missing some necessary steps. I think we need a base and launching point on the Moon, as well as working equipment (if not stations) at important "LaGrange" points (most importantly those between the Earth and the Moon). So, I would prefer we: (a) get back to the Moon and build a base at Clavius, and learn how to live and work in that environment, (b) proceed on with exploration missions to Mars and a Mars landing with a human being, (c) send robotic missions to asteroids, (d) learn to construct spacecraft in space, at LaGrange points for repeated travel and use small reusable shuttles to get us to and from the Earth, (e) build a space elevator to move heavy stuff up to space.

We have the technology and the know-how. We have waited long enough. We are about to lose the generation that walked on the Moon because people don't live forever, and it is important to rescue that knowledge and experience, and advance beyond what they did.

This is NOT science fiction. Werner Von Braun and his crew had plans for a Mars Mission back in the 1950s. We can do it. And, if we were to start now, and get men back on the Moon before 2020, and have a Mars Mission underway, we could foster another industrial revolution in the US and generations of science, enginnering and technology experts in the US. We need scientists and engineers. Not burger flippers and paper pushers.

[oddmanout]

Oh, we get election promises, that's standard, but the elephant in the room is being ignored by the political parties. They don't want to sound too scary.

Replacing Trident? 50-50 split, probably.

Hm, it makes me wonder what possible argument could be made in defence of the Trident and its replacement. Why would the UK need such weaponry? "Beware the muslims!!11" or what?

I think we should be rid. Keeps us in a servile position with the Merkins, upon whose grace we depend for our so-called "Independent deterrent"...

*Googling* ... Vagina wigs? I'm lost..

[Fagg]

It was shit.

Firstly, all NASA will do in future is a 50/50 split of robotic missions and tech infrastructure (telecoms, GPS etc). He basically handed space to corporations, and the Mars prophecy is bullshit. America is not going to Mars. China is.

Not seen the broadcast but robotic missions are far better VFM than manned anyway.

Besides, China ain't going to Mars, India is.....

Imagine, the first Test being played on Mars.......

If the West (Europe and the US) doesn't go to Mars in the next 25 years, then nobody is. China and India have not shown themselves to be competent at this stuff. China's rockets have a high failure rate, and the Indians can't hardly build a car, let alone a spacecraft.

I wish Europe and the US could get together on this. If we could pool resources, and put real money - like $500 billion into a mission, we'd fucking be there in no time. It never ceases to amaze me how much money we are willing to flush down the toilet, and then as soon as the talk is about giving more money to NASA, then it's "whoa whoa whoa! wait a minute THAT is a waste...."

I really don't think humans have much of a chance of colonizing any habitable (or terra-formed) planets outside earth on a large scale. But intelligent robots could. Hell, they don''t need oxygen. Instead of NASA, I think the human race should put its technical resources into perfecting a race of robots that can wipe us out, take over the Earth, and colonize space. That would be a legacy to be proud of and would give Earth it's best shot at spreading beyond itself. Humans are a nuisance anyway. I'm sure the Earth would be happy to be rid of us.

[Clinton Huxley]

If the West (Europe and the US) doesn't go to Mars in the next 25 years, then nobody is.

Blinkered view of Western exceptionalism, I'm afraid. Nothing lasts for ever, not even the American Empire....

China and India have not shown themselves to be competent at this stuff. China's rockets have a high failure rate,

Good job those space shuttles never blow up....

and the Indians can't hardly build a car, let alone a spacecraft.

They managed a pretty competent Moon probe. Besides, your average European would say the americans can hardly build a car...

[Coito ergo sum]

It was shit.

Firstly, all NASA will do in future is a 50/50 split of robotic missions and tech infrastructure (telecoms, GPS etc). He basically handed space to corporations, and the Mars prophecy is bullshit. America is not going to Mars. China is.

Not seen the broadcast but robotic missions are far better VFM than manned anyway.

Besides, China ain't going to Mars, India is.....

Imagine, the first Test being played on Mars.......

If the West (Europe and the US) doesn't go to Mars in the next 25 years, then nobody is. China and India have not shown themselves to be competent at this stuff. China's rockets have a high failure rate, and the Indians can't hardly build a car, let alone a spacecraft.

I wish Europe and the US could get together on this. If we could pool resources, and put real money - like $500 billion into a mission, we'd fucking be there in no time. It never ceases to amaze me how much money we are willing to flush down the toilet, and then as soon as the talk is about giving more money to NASA, then it's "whoa whoa whoa! wait a minute THAT is a waste...."

I really don't think humans have much of a chance of colonizing any habitable (or terra-formed) planets outside earth on a large scale. But intelligent robots could. Hell, they don''t need oxygen. Instead of NASA, I think the human race should put its technical resources into perfecting a race of robots that can wipe us out, take over the Earth, and colonize space. That would be a legacy to be proud of and would give Earth it's best shot at spreading beyond itself. Humans are a nuisance anyway. I'm sure the Earth would be happy to be rid of us.

Don't anthropomorphize stuff. The Earth is not happy, or unhappy. It just is. With or without us, it will be here until its atoms are somewhere else.

The reason humans must leave the Earth and learn to live elsewhere is because if all of us stay here, we will go extinct.

"Since, in the long run, every planetary civilization will be endangered by impacts from space, every surviving civilization is obliged to become spacefaring--not because of exploratory or romantic zeal, but for the most practical reason imaginable: staying alive... If our long-term survival is at stake, we have a basic responsibility to our species to venture to other worlds."

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994

"I don't think the human race will survive the next thousand years, unless we spread into space. There are too many accidents that can befall life on a single planet. But I'm an optimist. We will reach out to the stars."

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Stephen Hawking, interview with Daily Telegraph, 2001

"Let me end with an explanation of why I believe the move into space to be a human imperative. It seems to me obvious in too many ways to need listing that we cannot much longer depend upon our planet's relatively fragile ecosystem to handle the realities of the human tomorrow. Unless we turn human growth and energy toward the challenges and promises of space, our only other choice may be the awful risk, currently demonstrable, of stumbling into a cycle of fratricide and regression which could end all chances of our evolving further or of even surviving."

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Gene Roddenberry, Planetary Report Vol. 1, 1981

"The Earth is just too small and fragile a basket for the human race to keep all its eggs in."

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Robert Heinlein, speech

"There are so many benefits to be derived from space exploration and exploitation; why not take what seems to me the only chance of escaping what is otherwise the sure destruction of all that humanity has struggled to achieve for 50,000 years?"

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Isaac Asimov, speech at Rutgers University

"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!"

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Larry Niven, quoted by Arthur Clarke in interview
at space.com, 2001

[Clinton Huxley]

Oh, we get election promises, that's standard, but the elephant in the room is being ignored by the political parties. They don't want to sound too scary.

Replacing Trident? 50-50 split, probably.

Hm, it makes me wonder what possible argument could be made in defence of the Trident and its replacement. Why would the UK need such weaponry? "Beware the muslims!!11" or what?

I think we should be rid. Keeps us in a servile position with the Merkins, upon whose grace we depend for our so-called "Independent deterrent"...

*Googling* ... Vagina wigs? I'm lost..

We need nukes because the French have them....

"Merkin" - short for American....

[Coito ergo sum]

If the West (Europe and the US) doesn't go to Mars in the next 25 years, then nobody is.

Blinkered view of Western exceptionalism, I'm afraid. Nothing lasts for ever, not even the American Empire....

One, I never mentioned any sort of exceptionalism. The fact is that the West HAS successfully explored space, right? We have been to the Moon. We have sent robots to Mars, ion drive ship to a comet, spacecraft to an asteroid, and probes past all the planets and many moons, and even to the edge of the solar system.

It's not that the West is "better" than anyone else, it's just the reality that we have done it. We have the infrastructure. We have the knowhow. We have the experience.

The US doesn't have an Empire, by the way. That was European shtick. We've conquered a lot of territory, but most of the time we, in due course, march back home. Of course, however, "nothing lasts forever." However, to say that India will be on Mars within 25 years, when they only launched their first lunar probe about 2 years ago....is a bit of a stretch.

China and India have not shown themselves to be competent at this stuff. China's rockets have a high failure rate,

Good job those space shuttles never blow up....

Where did I say we never had an issue? Two shuttles have blown up in over 30 years. Tragic. However, the US has been on the Moon, many times. We have launched most of the satellites. We have the knowhow regarding launching manned missions consistently and constantly, and living and working in space. We, and the Russians, did the lion's share of the building of the space station. We, and the European Space Agency, teamed up on Cassini Huygens.

On a 25 year time frame, India would need to make up a lot of ground in order to have men walking on Mars.

and the Indians can't hardly build a car, let alone a spacecraft.

They managed a pretty competent Moon probe.

One. In 2008. Are you not aware of how much more they have to do to even get men into space reliably, and walking on the Moon, let alone walking on Mars?

Besides, your average European would say the americans can hardly build a car...

Yes, Europeans say a lot of things. Of course, to say Americans can hardly build a car, when it was American auto manufacturers that taught the world how to build them, is rather rich. Obviously, Japanese and European manufacturers make great cars, though. I'm not suggesting they are inferior.

[oddmanout]

We need nukes because the French have them....

"Merkin" - short for American....

Ahaaa....

Although, I must admit "vagina wigs" was one of the funniest things I've heard of in a long time.

[Clinton Huxley]

If the West (Europe and the US) doesn't go to Mars in the next 25 years, then nobody is.

Blinkered view of Western exceptionalism, I'm afraid. Nothing lasts for ever, not even the American Empire....

One, I never mentioned any sort of exceptionalism. The fact is that the West HAS successfully explored space, right? We have been to the Moon. We have sent robots to Mars, ion drive ship to a comet, spacecraft to an asteroid, and probes past all the planets and many moons, and even to the edge of the solar system.

Indeed we have. And it took only a few decades from the first crappy Sputnik to landing a man on the Moon. Asia could follow a similar trajectory.

It's not that the West is "better" than anyone else, it's just the reality that we have done it. We have the infrastructure. We have the knowhow. We have the experience.

Aye, and before you had the infrastructure you had to build it. Nothing stopping India and China from doing that.

The US doesn't have an Empire, by the way. That was European shtick. We've conquered a lot of territory, but most of the time we, in due course, march back home. Of course, however, "nothing lasts forever." However, to say that India will be on Mars within 25 years, when they only launched their first lunar probe about 2 years ago....is a bit of a stretch.

The US continetal territory is an Empire in all but name. As for 25 years, no-one will be there in that time-frame BUT the first person to step on Mars may well be an Indian...

[Clinton Huxley]

Besides, your average European would say the americans can hardly build a car...

Yes, Europeans say a lot of things. Of course, to say Americans can hardly build a car, when it was American auto manufacturers that taught the world how to build them, is rather rich. Obviously, Japanese and European manufacturers make great cars, though. I'm not suggesting they are inferior.

Well, the ancient Britons were pretty good at making flint tools - I think I would be terrible at it....

[mozg]

Regardless of what Obama's speech said about NASA jobs, the funding for mine disappeared. I'm not out of work, but that project isn't going to happen now and NASA is not paying my bills.

Manned space travel is being gutted, and realistically if they employ a couple thousand more people directly, the vast majority of the people who work for NASA don't actually work for NASA, they're contractors. It makes it easier, I guess, to hide the fact that the budget is getting shredded if you don't have to say 'Yeah we completely eliminated all these lines of contract work in which we employ huge numbers of engineers and programmers' because hey, you didn't fire them, you just didn't renew their contracts.

Also, Orion is the crew capsule that is being designed to sit atop the Ares rocket, and is supposed to replace the STS (Space Transportation System) using the "Shuttle".

[Coito ergo sum]

Besides, your average European would say the americans can hardly build a car...

Yes, Europeans say a lot of things. Of course, to say Americans can hardly build a car, when it was American auto manufacturers that taught the world how to build them, is rather rich. Obviously, Japanese and European manufacturers make great cars, though. I'm not suggesting they are inferior.

Well, the ancient Britons were pretty good at making flint tools - I think I would be terrible at it....

The reason that analogy is inapplicable is that the US auto manufacturers make great vehicles now, and build a large percentage of the world's total volume (so, people must like them enough to by them), and the Ford Fusion and Ford Taurus, the Cadillac CTS and STS, the Ford Mustang, the Ford F150, are all extremely high quality and popular vehicles, among many others.

[rachelbean]

Apparently, Obama said he advocates sending astronauts on missions to asteroids by 2025. A mission to orbit Mars could happen by 2035. I find these goals laudable, but I don't think it goes far enough, and I think he is missing some necessary steps. I think we need a base and launching point on the Moon, as well as working equipment (if not stations) at important "LaGrange" points (most importantly those between the Earth and the Moon). So, I would prefer we: (a) get back to the Moon and build a base at Clavius, and learn how to live and work in that environment, (b) proceed on with exploration missions to Mars and a Mars landing with a human being, (c) send robotic missions to asteroids, (d) learn to construct spacecraft in space, at LaGrange points for repeated travel and use small reusable shuttles to get us to and from the Earth, (e) build a space elevator to move heavy stuff up to space.

This. Until a couple years ago I knew absolutely nothing about the moon except the history of the Appollo program. After learinging about LCROSS and following the mission and results and studying related information, I actually got excited about the real possibility of manned travel to other planets in our lifetime. The recent budget and news has affected me more than I expected, and every time someone says "Who cares?" I lose a little more hope.