Problematic Stuff

[pErvinalia]

That quote is taken out of context, probably deliberately.

January 2000: At a news conference in White Plains, Clinton said, "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman. But I also believe that people in committed gay marriages, as they believe them to be, should be given rights under the law that recognize and respect their relationship."

Hillary Clinton’s changing position on same-sex marriage

I'm shocked to find that Coito has picked a source misrepresenting someone. Shocked I tell you!

[Brian Peacock]

This is no different than Lying for Jebus - the ends justifies the means. But then again, the people who make images like have no soul.

[Scot Dutchy]

This is no different than Lying for Jebus - the ends justifies the means. But then again, the people who make images like have no soul.

Lies seem to be the main form of debate these days.

[pErvinalia]

That's not true.

[Scot Dutchy]

No? Brexit?

[DRSB]

New problematic stuff: GMO

"More than 100 Nobel laureates have signed a letter urging Greenpeace to end its opposition to genetically modified organisms (GMOs). The letter asks Greenpeace to cease its efforts to block introduction of a genetically engineered strain of rice that supporters say could reduce Vitamin-A deficiencies causing blindness and death in children in the developing world."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spe ... mo-stance/

[Forty Two]

This is no different than Lying for Jebus - the ends justifies the means. But then again, the people who make images like have no soul.

It's not a misrepresentation of her. Check Politifact's factcheck. They gave her a big red "full flop" rating on her gay marriage position.

[Forty Two]

This is no different than Lying for Jebus - the ends justifies the means. But then again, the people who make images like have no soul.

Lies seem to be the main form of debate these days.

From Hillary supporters doing mental gymnastics, indeed.

[Brian Peacock]

This is no different than Lying for Jebus - the ends justifies the means. But then again, the people who make images like have no soul.

It's not a misrepresentation of her. Check Politifact's factcheck. They gave her a big red "full flop" rating on her gay marriage position.

Changin one's view is only problematic for moral absolutists. Public opinion changes over time - sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better, depending on one's perspective. In the UK we've collectively changed our mind on the issue of recognising same-sex marriage in the last 10 years for example, imo for the better. If one thinks that any and every view a politician holds or expresses has to stand for all time as a kind of absolute moral fact, then sure, Hillary is a filp-flopper. But then again, who isn't, so why should politicians (or anybody) be held accountable for views they no longer hold or express?

So is the issue here that Hilary changed her mind, or that it was wrong of her not to support same-sex marriage, or that it is wrong of her to now support same-sex marriage? Or is it that she's a woman? Or is it that she just has a different set of values and ideas than you - in which case why not take issue with those rather than with her person?

[pErvinalia]

No? Brexit?

I was making an ironic funny. You can laff now.

[pErvinalia]

The fact that we've got pretty strong conservatives changing their minds on marriage equality shows that it is a genuine evolving process for a lot of people. Even old lefties grew up in fairly conservative times, so you've got to consider that their whole world views are starting from an original base of conservatism (relative to the left of today). It's a process that a lot of old people, both progressives and conservatives, are going through. I don't doubt that there's been a lot of politicking on the issue in the past. But that doesn't mean some of these people aren't also experiencing a true moral journey.

[Forty Two]

That doesn't make the meme false or out of context. It is certainly fine for people to change their minds. But, conservatives bandy this meme about because they are often called bigots for opposing gay marriage, even if they were in favor of civil unions or domestic partnerships. Being opposed to gay marriage is tantamount to hate speech -- except, of course, when it was a position held by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton -- in that case it's a very sensible evolution .....

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah, invoke the spectre of an unfair double standard even when you do agree with 'the other side'.

[Forty Two]

Hillary Clinton was against gay marriage - marriage was to be only between a man and a woman. You have found a way to be comfortable with that. Good for you. Doesn't make anything "out of context." Stop pretending she doesn't say the shit she says. Next thing you know, you'll be saying her "landing under sniper fire" doozy was "taken out of context." LOL

And, there is a double standard -- have a Republican express amazement at a piece of modern technology, and he's an out of touch ignoramus. Hillary can claim to not know how to use email on a smartphone and she's a great gal.

[Brian Peacock]

Hillary Clinton was against gay marriage - marriage was to be only between a man and a woman. You have found a way to be comfortable with that. Good for you. Doesn't make anything "out of context." Stop pretending she doesn't say the shit she says. Next thing you know, you'll be saying her "landing under sniper fire" doozy was "taken out of context." LOL

And, there is a double standard -- have a Republican express amazement at a piece of modern technology, and he's an out of touch ignoramus. Hillary can claim to not know how to use email on a smartphone and she's a great gal.

The salience of your point is not clear to me. Yes, she used to think one thing and now she thinks another. I'm not denying anything she has said or is saying, I'm trying to understand why you seem to think she should be held accountable for a position she no longer holds??