Problematic Stuff

[Rum]

Having dabbled in some of the ...er...murkier areas of sexual activity myself in the dim and distant past I think I can say that in the 'right' circles it is all very fluid and nobody much gives a toss. Just go for it and forget labels.

[Sean Hayden]

He's got the I'm an idiot you can trust me speech pattern nailed. I hate that almost as much as the false stutter.

Seriously, does his broken speech remind you of anyone else?

[Forty Two]

What's your basis for thinking that gender is something someone chooses, suggesting that it isn't biologically based?

I didn't say "choose," I said "identify as." Is that the wrong term?

You juxtaposed that against biological. I assumed that meant you consider it a choice. If it's not biological and not a choice, then what exactly is it?

Is "identify as" the wrong term? Is it correct to say that sex is biological/genetic, and gender is what people identify as?

I am using in that post the distinction that I've heard made. Sex and gender are not the same thing, and sex is the biological/genetic bit and gender refers to what one identifies as (whether male, female, other, nonbinary, fluid, and which can change from day to day, depending on the person). Is that wrong? If so, let me know where you think I'm wrong.

Surely that implies it's a choice?

In any case, L'Emmy has provided some scientific arguments that it's biological. Have you addressed those?

Does it? Do you think it's a choice? Or, do you disagree with the distinction between sex and gender?

What is the difference between sex and gender? Did L'Emmy post that?

[laklak]

We ground apes like to categorize things, biological sex is a fairly self-evident category. Men have a meat and two veg, women have tacos. But but but SOME men don't have those things and they're still genetically male! Yeah, that's true. But most do, and it's a big enough most that we define a category based on it. Same holds for taco owners.

We have plants and animals. Everybody knows a tomato is a plant, and a cow is an animal. But there are plenty of little wiggly things that aren't clearly one or the other, and some are completely different, like mushrooms. That doesn't mean the categories are useless or need to be scrapped. I doubt anybody asked a lichen what it wants to be. BTW, cow + mushrooms + tomatoes = bolognaise.

[Cunt]

How can he be male without male genitals?

And explain how transgenderism is some sort of hoax. Do you think people are getting their cocks chopped and spliced up just to pull the wool over your eyes?

No, I think they are doing that because they think it is the best choice they can make.

Honestly, it's problematic that you are so obsessed with the details of the sex habits of these people. They deserve privacy as much as anyone.

I don't know what you want to say about 'gender', but sex doesn't get changed by wishing, or thinking, or surgery.

If you want to define gender as what mood people are in most of the time, fine I guess. Seems nonsensical to me though. Or private and intimate.

What a load of crap but there you go. You really dont have a clue do you and you should really shut up especially about things you obviously have no clue about.

No, you!

If you said what it is you think I'm wrong about, we could talk more. I understand though...people are watching...you can't risk talking openly about this, in case it turns out you have an unpopular opinion in there somewhere.

Sex isn't changed by thinking about it. Gender is private, and other than your sex partner and maybe your medic, no-one needs to know about it anymore than they need to know what position you like to do it in.

Of course, you are welcome to try to tell me why someone elses gender is supposed to be the business of government or business.

[Cunt]

...who say that people who are overt about their sexuality deserve to be treated harshly.

I don't remember saying deserved, but I would say I would expect them to be treated harshly.

Not because they are gay (or trans, or LGBTQRSTUA++) but because everybody gets treated harshly for being overtly sexual in public.

.

Which pegs you as a moralising conservative. Many of who are worthless bigots.

So because I observe these things in the world, I am moralizing? I would let you fuck your goat in my yard. I would film it (if it is lawful goat-fucking) and shield you from the prying eyes of neighbours. I would not judge you a lousy goatfucker (unless you did a poor job of fucking that goat)

I am not talking about MY morals, but about what my community does. You don't have to agree with your community about nosepicking, to suffer the social opprobrium if you pick your nose where you shouldn't.

[Cunt]

Having dabbled in some of the ...er...murkier areas of sexual activity myself in the dim and distant past I think I can say that in the 'right' circles it is all very fluid and nobody much gives a toss. Just go for it and forget labels.

It is perfectly ok to drop that among intimate friends.

Funny how even you - mature, retired, almost fucking bulletproof (socially) will still behave like a straight conservative in public, even when you are with your lover.

For better or worse, sex is treated as private and intimate by our society. I think it's harmful in places, to be that way. That doesn't change reality though.

He's got the I'm an idiot you can trust me speech pattern nailed. I hate that almost as much as the false stutter.

Seriously, does his broken speech remind you of anyone else?

This girl I used to know talked exactly like that. She got held back a grade, for breaking dress codes so I lost track of her...

We ground apes like to categorize things, biological sex is a fairly self-evident category. Men have a meat and two veg, women have tacos. But but but SOME men don't have those things and they're still genetically male! Yeah, that's true. But most do, and it's a big enough most that we define a category based on it. Same holds for taco owners.

We have plants and animals. Everybody knows a tomato is a plant, and a cow is an animal. But there are plenty of little wiggly things that aren't clearly one or the other, and some are completely different, like mushrooms. That doesn't mean the categories are useless or need to be scrapped. I doubt anybody asked a lichen what it wants to be. BTW, cow + mushrooms + tomatoes = bolognaise.

'Gender' isn't just what you identify as, it is also what others identify you as.

If you look mannish, and wear a beard, it doesn't matter that you yourself identify as a woman, most will use their discretion to categorize you as a man.

Pronouns are 'owned' by those who utter them. That bit of categorization is their main use.

[Scot Dutchy]

What a load of crap but there you go. You really dont have a clue do you and you should really shut up especially about things you obviously have no clue about.

No, you!

If you said what it is you think I'm wrong about, we could talk more. I understand though...people are watching...you can't risk talking openly about this, in case it turns out you have an unpopular opinion in there somewhere.

Sex isn't changed by thinking about it. Gender is private, and other than your sex partner and maybe your medic, no-one needs to know about it anymore than they need to know what position you like to do it in.

Of course, you are welcome to try to tell me why someone elses gender is supposed to be the business of government or business.

You know fuck all so why dont you just fuck off.

[Cunt]

What a load of crap but there you go. You really dont have a clue do you and you should really shut up especially about things you obviously have no clue about.

No, you!

If you said what it is you think I'm wrong about, we could talk more. I understand though...people are watching...you can't risk talking openly about this, in case it turns out you have an unpopular opinion in there somewhere.

Sex isn't changed by thinking about it. Gender is private, and other than your sex partner and maybe your medic, no-one needs to know about it anymore than they need to know what position you like to do it in.

Of course, you are welcome to try to tell me why someone elses gender is supposed to be the business of government or business.

You know fuck all so why dont you just fuck off.

That may be the most thoughtful bit you have contributed on this subject.

Don't worry, there isn't much better out there. When debate is offered, the gender-policing community either hides their best debaters, or has only fools presenting their side.

If you don't like it, you should be able to change my position merely by rubbing your tummy, and identifying as dominating this discussion with your best strengths.

[Brian Peacock]

Is asking irrelevant and/or deflective questions a proper way to have a discussion about this, or is answering a question with a question just something you've fallen into out of habit?

[Cunt]

Is asking irrelevant and/or deflective questions a proper way to have a discussion about this, or is answering a question with a question just something you've fallen into out of habit?

What I was trying to point out, is that even your most thoughtful, sensitive method of securing the border would result in suffering for individuals caught near the edges of the law.

The metal spoon thing. I wish you would just go look it up. You might understand why I asked you to then, instead of just thinking I'm deflecting. I'm trying to show you that some of these situations will be FUCKING HORRIBLE no matter how they are dealt with.

[Hermit]

The metal spoon thing. I wish you would just go look it up. You might understand why I asked you to then, instead of just thinking I'm deflecting. I'm trying to show you that some of these situations will be FUCKING HORRIBLE no matter how they are dealt with.

You have not thought this through. Children who conceal metal spoons in their underwear want to be separated from whoever is accompanying them.

[Cunt]

The metal spoon thing. I wish you would just go look it up. You might understand why I asked you to then, instead of just thinking I'm deflecting. I'm trying to show you that some of these situations will be FUCKING HORRIBLE no matter how they are dealt with.

You have not thought this through. Children who conceal metal spoons in their underwear want to be separated from whoever is accompanying them.

Yes, they do. While they do want that, their siblings, parents, extended family and various news organizations don't know anything about that person wanting to be separated.

I don't know what method a fearful kid would use to escape abuse when heading to south america (spoons aren't known in those circles) but a sharp-eyed TSA agent could probably catch them sometimes.

My point is, there are lots of reasons that even you would have to separate families (or those pretending they are families). The media could make you seem horrible for doing so, even if your every motive was human dignity, every action audited.

And having a lot of crimmigrants protected in various ways (sanctuary cities, for example) has made the problem a lot more thorny.

[Hermit]

My point is, there are lots of reasons that even you would have to separate families (or those pretending they are families). The media could make you seem horrible for doing so, even if your every motive was human dignity, every action audited.

Indeed.

Are you suggesting that separating 2300 children from their parents in a matter of a few weeks whose crime it was to cross a border without a visa, and sticking them into cages was motivated by human dignity? Or maybe you have evidence that those 2300 children would have concealed metal spoons in their underwear, had they only known about that trick - and the existence of metal spoons - and only those clued in ICE agents were aware of their problem?

[Brian Peacock]

But Hermit, someone once gamed the system, so nobody can be trusted - not even kids in diapers. Best treat them all like criminals.