Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Bella Fortuna » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:47 pm

maiforpeace wrote:
kiki5711 wrote:It's also pretty clear that he cannot discuss any matters regarding his accusation by RD while the lawsuit is pending. We can ask questions, but he should NOT be answering any or it might be used against him. So what is the purpose then?
There's plenty of stuff he can still discuss. His lawyers will have prompted him properly on what he can or cannot say.

Josh ain't skimping either...he has hired some pretty high profile legal representation. http://cacllp.com/clients/
Good thing he has all the money to pay for it. :smug:
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by maiforpeace » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:04 pm

There's just something really fishy about the whole thing, isn't there? :what:

Seems to me they could have easily settled this without a civil suit if it was just a case of mistaken anything. And, while Josh probably won't get jail time, or little if he is found guilty of embezzlement, RD has to know that he could get real jail time, for at least a year if the county prosecutor decided he did want to take it up and throw the book.

For someone who had so much affection for Josh and dedicated a book to him, this seems way over the top.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Don't Panic » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:56 pm

maiforpeace wrote:There's just something really fishy about the whole thing, isn't there? :what:

Seems to me they could have easily settled this without a civil suit if it was just a case of mistaken anything. And, while Josh probably won't get jail time, or little if he is found guilty of embezzlement, RD has to know that he could get real jail time, for at least a year if the county prosecutor decided he did want to take it up and throw the book.

For someone who had so much affection for Josh and dedicated a book to him, this seems way over the top.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Svartalf » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:59 pm

Does that mean that if Dawkins really was horny for josh as I gathered from I don't remember when, he would be a really girly kind of guy?
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Gawd » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:24 pm

Dawkins always seemed gay to me so it wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing is just about Dawkins & Josh breaking up. A straight guy doesn't dedicate a whole book to a guy that puts up his website, yah know?

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Blondie » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:31 pm

Gawd wrote:Dawkins always seemed gay to me so it wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing is just about Dawkins & Josh breaking up. A straight guy doesn't dedicate a whole book to a guy that puts up his website, yah know?
It did seem a bit queer, I mean strange. Josh: The Amazing Iceberg (and we've never even seen the tip)!
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Re: Dawkins sues Timonen

Post by lordpasternack » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:45 pm

electricwhiteboy wrote:The way I understand it is that Dawkins has something of an open marriage, which he's at pains to keep under wraps.
Not really. It's pretty plain between the lines in his article "Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster". There's a rather glaring amount of subjectivity wrapped in with the objective context. It pretty much screams that he has, or would ideally strive for, an open relationship: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/1926

I don't think he goes to especially great pains to make things particularly incredibly discreet on that count. And at the bottom of it, I don't believe he'll have done anything at all immoral or unethical. And if that's true then it's really nobody else's business. It would be a shame if he was put under pressure for the sake of PR, and even more of a shame if he caved to it. But well, he did sign up to that when he placed his individual identity and reputation into a charity and mission. So, siiiiiggghhhh, I suppose...

I may have posted this somewhat defensively as someone who has (also) been around the block a few times. :hehe:
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Atheist-Lite » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:48 pm

Anthroban wrote:
Gawd wrote:Dawkins always seemed gay to me so it wouldn't surprise me if this whole thing is just about Dawkins & Josh breaking up. A straight guy doesn't dedicate a whole book to a guy that puts up his website, yah know?
It did seem a bit queer, I mean strange. Josh: The Amazing Iceberg (and we've never even seen the tip)!
He's got a daughter so he must be biTM if he ain't straight?
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Re: Dawkins sues Timonen

Post by lordpasternack » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:48 pm

Calilasseia wrote:I would so love to say hello to him. And shake him warmly by the throat.
:funny: :lol: :hehe:
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Re: Dawkins sues Timonen

Post by maiforpeace » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:56 pm

lordpasternack wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:I would so love to say hello to him. And shake him warmly by the throat.
:funny: :lol: :hehe:
He would probably prefer that over what's going to happen to him in real life.

Josh's whole world is being shaken to the core with an embezzlement accusation by an atheist celebrity. The rest of it is minor shit to him right now. Regardless of the outcome of this case, he is going to be out a lot of cash - the lawyers he hired are not cheap, and his reputation will suffer enormously in the days to come when it comes to his future career. He's already suffering, and will suffer more. Right now he has the support of his girlfriend, but if she has the tastes she is purported to have, that won't last long as all his money is drained away by legal fees. Let's see how she feels about him a year from now. He may even do some jail time.

He's here looking for something from our community - what, we don't exactly know yet. Josh couldn't care diddly squat about answering any questions about the RDF meltdown - and if he does, it's only to serve an ulterior motive.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Tero » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:04 pm

It can't look good on the resume either.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Blondie » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:13 pm

Tero wrote:It can't look good on the resume either.
Nonsense: As they say in the business: “Every crowd has a silver lining.” :smoke:
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Warren Dew » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:29 pm

Because legal requirements imposed by the British Charities Commission prohibited the British wing of the foundation from running its own store, Dawkins says he asked Timonen to run the store through his company, Upper Branch Productions....

But Dawkins says anything Timonen created for the Foundation was "a work for hire, commissioned and paid for by plaintiffs." Dawkins says he and the Foundation own the rights to everything Timonen created for them.
My question is, if the store was being run through Upper Branch Productions, how can it have been "created for" the Dawkins Foundation, which is legally prohibited from running a store? Or is there something that's not coming through in the article here?

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by charlou » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:07 am

Interesting question, Warren.

I also find it difficult to believe that Josh Timonen would be so care free about record keeping if he thought he was embezzling money. I don't know if he's legally correct or deluded (or both), but perhaps his claim that he owns the rights is a genuine perception he had/has.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

Post by Blondie » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:20 am

Warren Dew wrote:
Because legal requirements imposed by the British Charities Commission prohibited the British wing of the foundation from running its own store, Dawkins says he asked Timonen to run the store through his company, Upper Branch Productions....

But Dawkins says anything Timonen created for the Foundation was "a work for hire, commissioned and paid for by plaintiffs." Dawkins says he and the Foundation own the rights to everything Timonen created for them.
My question is, if the store was being run through Upper Branch Productions, how can it have been "created for" the Dawkins Foundation, which is legally prohibited from running a store? Or is there something that's not coming through in the article here?
From wipo.int
Ownership of Copyright
2.220 The owner of copyright in a work is generally, at least in the first instance, the person who
created the work, that is to say, the author of the work.
2.221 There can be exceptions to this general principle. Such exceptions are regulated by the
national law. For example, the national law may provide that, when a work is created by an author
who is employed for the purpose of creating that work, then the employer, not the author, is the
owner of the copyright in the work.

2.222 It is to be noted, however, that the “moral rights” always belong to the author of the work,
whoever may be the owner of the copyright.
2.223 In many countries, copyright (with the exception of moral rights) may be assigned. This
means that the owner of the copyright transfers it to another person or entity, who becomes the
owner of the copyright.
2.224 In some other countries, an assignment of copyright is not legally possible. However, very
nearly the same practical effect as the effect of assignment can be achieved by licensing. Licensing
means that the owner of the copyright remains the owner but authorizes someone else to exercise
all or some of his rights subject to possible limitations. When such authorization or license extends
to the full period of copyright and when such authorization or license extends to all the rights
(except, of course, the moral rights) protected by copyright, the licensee is, vis-à-vis third parties and
for all practical purposes, in the same position as an owner of copyright.
The author, be it a person or a contractor with employees of his own, hired to create a work holds no right of copyright ownership. Josh does not own the copyright to anything he was hired, or contracted, to create - whoever hired, or contracted him, to do it does.

eta: Depending on what countries copyright laws we're operating under (but most major nations subscribe to the same copyright treaties - so it usually makes no difference).
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