Atheists and reason

[Feck]

I got roasted just for saying I thought Richard Dawkins would likely have fans - not calling everyone a fan, just saying that the number of people who follow his work would make it likely there were fans who agreed with stuff just because he said it!

Meh Humanists they may have given up one last god but they still think they are special

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I think that too many people confuse skepticism and cynicism.

Question everything by all means but be prepared to listen to any answers that come, even if they are not what you want to hear. Assuming that you know what someone is going to say before you hear it and shouting them down is never going to win an argument, merely entrench positions. Seeking out common ground and identifying points of difference are the bedrocks of constructive argument.

Remember that you will hardly ever win an argument if your concept of victory is converting the other person to your point of view. But if you consider making that person think a little more critically about their position to be a victory of sorts, you will succeed more often than you fail.

[charlou]

The thing is, we can be rational about certain things and irrational about others. Being one does not preclude the other.

Yes, actually I've seen atheists and theists act rationally and irrationally about the same thing. Any contentious topic has both emotional and rational components.. Emotions often dictate direction, especially when we're passionate about something and humans rationalize their irrational behavior.

Frankly, when the message or messenger is loved or hated, I've generally found that atheists are no better than theists in their tendency to respectively sycophantly herd or attempt to silence.

I think much of this is naturally programmed by evolution. I was watching Koi in my pond the other day before a storm. Most of them usually herd together and this generally helps them avoid predation. They are also social creatures. But there are always a few loners who explore the outer fringes of the pond and when there is a big storm - they tend to be the ones to migrate to my larger ponds They are also more likely to get picked off by herons. But if my smaller pond were to dry up somehow or get silted in, the later survival strategy would show its value even more. Some balance in between both survival strategies is optimal for long-term survival of social species.

I think humans are a lot like that. Most of us usually prefer to be part of the herd and then there are those like me, who usually prefer not to be. One isn't necessarily better in every context than the other and both carry positive and negative baggage. The non-herders generally tend to be in the vast minority though we all have both sides in us to some extent and exhibit it under different conditions.

I guess my assumption has always been that atheists probably tend more toward the non-herder, at least in the US where this stance is still rather embattled. And I think this is still true, though not as much as i did before. My guess is that many atheists make up for whatever feelings of rejection or isolation atheism yields in the majority theist community by seeking the herd in other areas of life or by belonging to forums like this to seek to be part of some herd, no matter how small. Perhaps that makes forums like RDF even more susceptible to herd behavior and the divisions it fosters with "outsiders". I do know I've witnessed us all do it under various conditions, some worse than others.

Very good post.