A 10 year old with balls.

[floppit]

Of course I could try and brainwash myself into believing it's perfectly ok but that would defeat the whole point of being an atheist.

In one single line you have found the words to sum up my biggest bug bear. Challenging religion is not 'the point', it is merely a side effect. If someone loses their faith but does not gain the ability to reason nothing is gained, not one jot. There is no 'point' in being an atheist, there is a 'point' in valuing rationality and reasoning - that the latter leads to the former is not the purpose, the purpose is to be able to use knowledge in ways that are more functional.

[Thinking Aloud]

Most of these liberals who support gay rights have never seen gays in action. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

Most people who support the right to have an abortion have never seen an aborted fetus. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

Most people who love their parents have never seen their parents having sex. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

Most people who eat meat have never seen a slaughterhouse in action. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

Most people who flush the toilet have never had to walk a public sewer. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

[Rum]

Beaten senseless with soft feather filled pillows hurled by pink lefty liberals - wot's it feel like?

[angrychimp]

I come back from dinner and I've been swarmed!
This reminds me of the time I knocked a wasp's nest down dressed only in shorts.
-
I haven't ignored anyone's post. I read them all. I'm just going to reiterate why I posted in the this thread.

--
Can kids comprehend what homosexuality is? No.
They will understand when they get older and maybe then their opinion on gay rights will change.
In the mean time they shouldn't be plastered all over the media to push their parents agenda.
--
In regards to some other points raised:

1.I'm not against gay rights
2.Can kids understand equal rights. Yes. No argument.
3.Experience isn't necessary to have an opinion but it helps, especially when it's not a clear cut 'good vs evil' subject like genocide. (the genocide comparison? really?)

Most people who eat meat have never seen a slaughterhouse in action. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

Everyone who eats meat should tour an abattoir. Ignorance is not bliss.

Beaten senseless with soft feather filled pillows hurled by pink lefty liberals - wot's it feel like?

Lonely. Now I know what those creotards feel when they venture into the RD forums.

[charlou]

Beaten senseless with soft feather filled pillows hurled by pink lefty liberals - wot's it feel like?

Lonely. Now I know what those creotards feel when they venture into the RD forums.

Awww ...

But they probably wouldn't be offered these


It's just a discussion, and I must say your last reply has given me a better picture of your position.

In the mean time they shouldn't be plastered all over the media to push their parents agenda.

Is that what's happening here, or is the boy just being supported in his own stance by his parents? The article indicates the latter and if that is the case I think it's fine. If not, I agree with you that 'they shouldn't be plastered all over the media to push their parents agenda'.

[angrychimp]

Awww ...

But they probably wouldn't be offered these

Appreciated

Is that what's happening here, or is the boy just being supported in his own stance by his parents? The article indicates the latter and if that is the case I think it's fine. If not, I agree with you that they shouldn't be plastered all over the media to push their parents agenda.

If the same boy had come out and said the exact opposite (anti-gay rhetoric and god hates fags etc etc), members here would likely be upset at how his parents had brainwashed him and how he didn't understand what he was saying.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The last time you saw two men 'together', was your reaction "Aww how sweet" ?
Because mine sure wasn't.
I wasn't raised by bias parents. My reaction was instinctive.

Instinctive or conditioned reflex? Read R.A.H.'s take on cannibalism in Stranger in a Strange Land. It's enlightening.

[Animavore]

I hate that innocent childhood shite. My friend Olli is always touchy feely around his 9 year-old nephew. Especially with some of the mad shit I say in front of him. He even thinks that we have some sort of duty to let a child remain locked up and 'innocent'. Whatever the fuck that means. This is a guy whose sister, at the age of 14, thought you could get pregnant by kissing someone. Oh how we laughed.
I understand the real story of course. When I was around 7 the older kids down the back of the bus on the new school I went to used to sing really dirty songs. I had to know what these things were whether by asking other students or checking a dictionary. By the time I was nine I had found the magazines on top of my dad's wardrobe. None of this knowledge defiled my innocence, if anything I had to play down what I knew in order to protect my parents.
Then I move to this country town when I was 11 and couldn't believe how little they knew about such things (this has changed), which probably explains my mates protectiveness.
I remember in 6th class the teacher gave us a table quiz. One of the questions she asked was "Who wears a wig and a gown?"
My little hand shot up with alacrity "Miss! Miss!"
"Yes, Thomas"
"A transvestite." I replied with bright-eyed certainty, dead chuffed with myself. No one in the class even flinched. Not a stifled giggle, not even a titter. They weren't even dumbstruck. It was as if I'd said nothing. Except for the teacher who looked disapprovingly at me and tutted.
Then Simon Murphy shot up his hand "Miss. A judge."
I was nearly knocked off my seat. I was not expecting that to be the answer at all. My answer was right. Our table should of got the point.
Now that, my friends, is innocence.

[Mysturji]

Most of these liberals who support gay rights have never seen gays in action. It's a rather disturbing, unsettling sight.

Now I don't support discrimination (freedom for all etc etc.), just saying most supporters (especially ten y/o kids) have no idea what they're actually talking about.

I disagree, I do think they know what they are talking about at that age.

Maybe I worded it wrong. I can accept a ten year old recognises unfair rules but I don't think anyone has sat him down and explained what homosexuality actually is.

May not be necessary. He may be catholic.

[Mysturji]

My daughter's spare parents are gay...

What?
I agree with everything else you said in that post, but I find that statement truly bizarre.
What the hell is a spare parent, how many coupons do you need collect to get one, and are batteries included?

As to angrychimp's controversial statements I think I know where he's coming from. (BTW, WTF is that avatar?)

I see hetero's kissing I think (if she's attractive) "You lucky sod."
I see lesbians kissing I think (if they're attractive) "...but what a waste."
I see male gays kissing, I think

I find the idea of male homosexual sex disgusting. Just the way I am: hetero, and I make no apology for that.

But... (and this is the point I think angrychimp and I are both trying to make)

I also think Brussels sprouts are disgusting, but I DON'T think they should be illegal. I just don't want them on my plate.

What consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business and I honestly don't care. But different people have different sensibilities.
Somebody mentioned abattoirs. There's occasionally a news story about neighbours complaining when someone's religious celebrations include slaughtering an animal on their front lawn. No-one is saying they're not allowed to eat meat, but some things are probably best done in private.

And before people jump down my throat, consider that we are all products of the society we grew up in, and most of us have changed many of our opinions through a sense of right & wrong, and sheer force of will.
And also consider the title of this thread, and how no-one has (yet) batted an eyelid at its sexist overtones.

[Animavore]

I find the idea of male homosexual sex disgusting. Just the way I am: hetero, and I make no apology for that.

But... (and this is the point I think angrychimp and I are both trying to make)

I also think Brussels sprouts are disgusting, but I DON'T think they should be illegal. I just don't want them on my plate.

What consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business and I honestly don't care.

So basically homosexuals should keep what they do private and indoors where as everyone else should be allowed to express themselves publicly and freely?

[Mysturji]

I find the idea of male homosexual sex disgusting. Just the way I am: hetero, and I make no apology for that.

But... (and this is the point I think angrychimp and I are both trying to make)

I also think Brussels sprouts are disgusting, but I DON'T think they should be illegal. I just don't want them on my plate.

What consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business and I honestly don't care.

So basically homosexuals should keep what they do private and indoors where as everyone else should be allowed to express themselves publicly and freely?

No.
Read it again.

[Animavore]

I find the idea of male homosexual sex disgusting. Just the way I am: hetero, and I make no apology for that.

But... (and this is the point I think angrychimp and I are both trying to make)

I also think Brussels sprouts are disgusting, but I DON'T think they should be illegal. I just don't want them on my plate.

What consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business and I honestly don't care.

So basically homosexuals should keep what they do private and indoors where as everyone else should be allowed to express themselves publicly and freely?

No.
Read it again.

I don't see any difference. You go on to say...

What consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business and I honestly don't care. But different people have different sensibilities.
Somebody mentioned abattoirs. There's occasionally a news story about neighbours complaining when someone's religious celebrations include slaughtering an animal on their front lawn. No-one is saying they're not allowed to eat meat, but some things are probably best done in private.

[Psi Wavefunction]

It seems like perhaps angrychimp's point above was about children being brainwashed with political views, not about homosexuality or gay rights. In a way, I can kinda see that - some views are ok to push onto kids and publicise (eg. promoting seemingly harmless stuff like foreign aid to Africa and environmentalism), and even encouraged, while others (eg. corporate freedom, stricter government controls) would lead to the parents being thoroughly chewed out. Now while we all have some opinions on these topics, and may favour one cause over another, we should try hard not to taint our objectivity with inherently questionable choices (if anything in politics, or life in general, had a defined answer, the world would be a very different place. Probably a boring place too.)

On second thought, as much as I may lean towards liberalism myself, I still wonder whether it's right to encourage enforcing such views on children; they have to critically examine information for themselves. Yes, they'll make mistakes in reasoning like the rest of us, but that's part of the learning process -- it's integral for their views to be their own!

Just some thoughts...

[floppit]

What?
I agree with everything else you said in that post, but I find that statement truly bizarre.
What the hell is a spare parent, how many coupons do you need collect to get one, and are batteries included?

What's not to understand - you keep a spare tyre, you know why you keep a spare tyre, you know people are not immortal.

What we have done is allowed and encouraged a close bond between the best two people we could imagine and our daughter, it enhances her extended family, it gives her another outlook on life - even at her current age she enjoys different things there to with us. My best friend was there when she was born and holds all the stories of our childhood. These things matter more than life insurance, more than money. No parent can be sure they will see their child to adulthood.

Like I said - I bet you have a spare tyre and I thinks kids matter more than avoiding a tow!