Stupid kids - view it as an opportunity!

[pErvinalia]

Isn't viewing stupid kids as an opportunity the cornerstone of capitalism?

No, I think the cornerstone of capitalism is economic freedom. You do what you want, within the law, with your own property and resources. Secondarily, there is self-interest, as distinct from selfishness (they are not at all the same thing). The notion is that self-interest is best understood by the self - nobody knows what you need or want better than you, generally speaking (albeit not always and not for everything). However, in general, other people, such as elected officials or bureaucrats, are not in a better position to know what is best for a given individual. Thus, the individual is tasked with looking out for his or her interests, and a lot of voting is done with one's own pocketbook.

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market. That's why capitalism - real capitalism, not crony capitalism or state capitalism - tends to be better to individuals than government agencies when providing services. If you have a problem, the fix-it shop might be persuaded to stay open past 5pm to help you to make sure you can get somewhere the following day -- persuasion, customer loyalty, the desire to beat out the competitor down the street - can make private businesses go the extra mile. A government agency will never do that. 5pm is quittin' time - and you will be in dire need if a service is not provided .... oh, well - you snooze you lose, come back tomorrow.

In competitive industries, you can get a lot of consideration from private companies when you need something and they need customers. Governments don't do dick that isn't set forth in the regulations or procedures.

All rubbish. Capitalism absolutely needs an underclass of people either too stupid/uneducated and/or poor such that the only capital they will ever meaningfully have is their own labour. Without that underclass, you'd never have enough labour to sustain the capitalist system. You can't have everyone (or a majority of people) solely in the rentier/investment class. Capitalism simply wouldn't work.

[laklak]

So does socialism, and certainly communism. The lumpen will always be with us. The majority of people don't have enough brain power to blow their noses, and it's only getting worse. Idiocracy is a fucking documentary. What we're going to do with them after their manual labor is no longer needed is a real issue.

[pErvinalia]

Well in socialism and communism you don't have an investment/rentier class. So in that (ideal) case, it's not really a problem, as everyone would have to trade their labour. Arguably less on average than in capitalism, but it would be such a different system that it's hard to know really. And then there is the reality vs the ideal. I suspect you'd wind up at Soviet Union style socialism pretty much every time, given enough time for the psychopaths to rise to the top.

[laklak]

Sociopathy is a definite survival trait, I think we're the new Indigo Children. Well, not ME, of course, I'm not a sociopath. I'm just really interested in what's inside the kitty cat.

[cronus]

I'll make a simple Nihilistic observation on capitalism vs communism vs the human animal. Never trust a '-ism' me lads. Never trust a '-ism'.

[JimC]

Forty Two wrote:

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market.

Maybe not completely based on, but a large part of its profit-making comes from relying on the gullibility of consumers. Companies will always push the limits in terms of persuading people to part with cash - a lot of the necessary work by government agencies these days is policing this fluid boundary, to stop people being ripped off by corporate conmen...

[pErvinalia]

I'll make a simple Nihilistic observation on capitalism vs communism vs the human animal. Never trust a '-ism' me lads. Never trust a '-ism'.

Crumple-ism...

[pErvinalia]

Forty Two wrote:

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market.

Maybe not completely based on, but a large part of its profit-making comes from relying on the gullibility of consumers. Companies will always push the limits in terms of persuading people to part with cash - a lot of the necessary work by government agencies these days is policing this fluid boundary, to stop people being ripped off by corporate conmen...

Exactly. Look at the Neurofen scandal in Australia this last few weeks. Sold the exact same Neurofen tablet (as the standard) repackaged in a variety of boxes claiming relief from specific ailments, and CHARGED MORE FOR IT! They got fined a couple of mill this week. Pissy little fine. The judge ruled that they didn't set out to purposely deceive people. What a load of bullshit.

[JimC]

Forty Two wrote:

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market.

Maybe not completely based on, but a large part of its profit-making comes from relying on the gullibility of consumers. Companies will always push the limits in terms of persuading people to part with cash - a lot of the necessary work by government agencies these days is policing this fluid boundary, to stop people being ripped off by corporate conmen...

Exactly. Look at the Neurofen scandle in Australia this last few weeks. Sold the exact same Neurofen tablet (as the standard) repackaged in a variety of boxes claiming relief from specific ailments, and CHARGED MORE FOR IT! They got fined a couple of mill this week. Pissy little fine. The judge ruled that they didn't set out to purposely deceive people. What a load of bullshit.

In a way, they relied on poorly educated (or at least unthinking) consumers fooling themselves; "Oh, the packet says this is perfect for my pain, so I have to buy it!"

Companies selling consumer products rely on people making stupid choices for at least some of their sales. That's why consumer education is a very useful thing...

[Hermit]

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market.

That's an amazingly sanguine view about capitalism.

[Hermit]

I'll make a simple Nihilistic observation on capitalism vs communism vs the human animal. Never trust a '-ism' me lads. Never trust a '-ism'.

Hmmmm. ... Nihilism...

[Hermit]

In a way, they relied on poorly educated (or at least unthinking) consumers fooling themselves; "Oh, the packet says this is perfect for my pain, so I have to buy it!"

You are being excessively charitable. Reckitt Benckiser did not rely on consumers fooling themselves. The company actively set out to fool them. In order to increase the profit margin it sold an identical product to one it was already selling by relabeling it with a claim that it could do something which it could not possibly do. Reckitt Benckiser engaged in profiteering by the simple expedient of false advertising.

[JimC]

In a way, they relied on poorly educated (or at least unthinking) consumers fooling themselves; "Oh, the packet says this is perfect for my pain, so I have to buy it!"

You are being excessively charitable. Reckitt Benckiser did not rely on consumers fooling themselves. The company actively set out to fool them. In order to increase the profit margin it sold an identical product to one it was already selling by relabeling it with a claim that it could do something which it could not possibly do. Reckitt Benckiser engaged in profiteering by the simple expedient of false advertising.

True, but their task was made easier by unthinking consumers. All you needed to do was to look at the small print on the packaging, and note that the ingredients were identical in the so-called different products...

[pErvinalia]

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market.

That's an amazingly sanguine view about capitalism.

It's actually the same naivety that infects liberalism in general. The idea that these elite systems are there for the benefit of everyone.

[Strontium Dog]

Forty Two wrote:

Capitalism is not based on taking advantage of stupid people, but serving a given market.

Maybe not completely based on, but a large part of its profit-making comes from relying on the gullibility of consumers. Companies will always push the limits in terms of persuading people to part with cash - a lot of the necessary work by government agencies these days is policing this fluid boundary, to stop people being ripped off by corporate conmen...

Exactly. Look at the Neurofen scandal in Australia this last few weeks. Sold the exact same Neurofen tablet (as the standard) repackaged in a variety of boxes claiming relief from specific ailments, and CHARGED MORE FOR IT! They got fined a couple of mill this week. Pissy little fine. The judge ruled that they didn't set out to purposely deceive people. What a load of bullshit.

Anyone who is stupid enough to buy branded painkillers in the first place when they can buy generics that are chemically identical at a tenth of the cost genuinely deserves to be ripped off.

Surely if meritocracy is about anything, it's about stupid people losing resources to smarter people.