College Students Engage in Lawful Behavior Off-Campus

[pErvinalia]

Karate Kid?

[Forty Two]

Yeah. They were lucky that all that came of this was "extended evening hours talks". The university has a right to protect it's reputation by determining exactly who they allow to study and work at their institution.

A state university, like any other arm of the government, doesn't have "rights." A university has no right to "protect its reputation" by disallowing the Communist Party's student organization from studying and working on campus, do they?

This talk of state universities having "rights" ....lol. Next thing you know, you'll be suggesting corporations are associations of persons with constitutional rights, like the SCOTUS held in Citizens United....

[Forty Two]

There are 2 issues here, which people (as usual) will probably mix together...

1. Is there justifiable criticism of the student's actions?

Almost certainly - from what it sounds like, this had definite racist elements, and probably deserves to be condemned by all and sundry.

A ghetto party. I mean, for the love of Pete.... it's just a party with a bit of a funny theme. Plenty of people of all races have lived in ghettos.

You're either deliberately overlooking the point that it was a bunch of snotnosed privileged little pricks who've never worked a day in their lives

Translation: "You're either deliberately overlooking the point that it was a bunch of [college students]....

reveling in assertive racial insensitivity, or you're tone deaf.

....peacefully associating for social purposes as they please in a free society....

But you're not tone deaf, you're just making a dog whistle argument. Cobra Kai got their roll checked. Tough shit.

LOL - the day we allow the administrators of a state-run enterprise govern the lawful behavior, off-campus, in private residences, of private citizens, because that behavior might be seen by some as "insensitive" is the day our fundamental liberties is a sad day indeed. LOL - insensitivity. Might be insensitive for a black panther student group to have a racial segregated party in a private house to talk about the merits of a violent race war, too, but it's not the purview of a state college administrator to tell them what to do.

[piscator]

There are 2 issues here, which people (as usual) will probably mix together...

1. Is there justifiable criticism of the student's actions?

Almost certainly - from what it sounds like, this had definite racist elements, and probably deserves to be condemned by all and sundry.

A ghetto party. I mean, for the love of Pete.... it's just a party with a bit of a funny theme. Plenty of people of all races have lived in ghettos.

You're either deliberately overlooking the point that it was a bunch of snotnosed privileged little pricks who've never worked a day in their lives

Translation: "You're either deliberately overlooking the point that it was a bunch of [college students]....

reveling in assertive racial insensitivity, or you're tone deaf.

....peacefully associating for social purposes as they please in a free society....

But you're not tone deaf, you're just making a dog whistle argument. Cobra Kai got their roll checked. Tough shit.

LOL - the day we allow the administrators of a state-run enterprise govern the lawful behavior, off-campus, in private residences, of private citizens, because that behavior might be seen by some as "insensitive" is the day our fundamental liberties is a sad day indeed.

They entered an agreement with the Jesuit school, an agreement that provides mechanisms for compliance. Are you asserting the agreement is illegal or otherwise nonbinding?

[piscator]

...
Might be insensitive for a black panther student group to have a racial segregated party in a private house to talk about the merits of a violent race war, too, but it's not the purview of a state college administrator to tell them what to do.

Why are you conflating this Ghetto Party with the Black Panther Party?

Theme Kegger =/= Organized political institution with a revolutionary charter and bylaws

[pErvinalia]

Yeah. They were lucky that all that came of this was "extended evening hours talks". The university has a right to protect it's reputation by determining exactly who they allow to study and work at their institution.

A state university, like any other arm of the government, doesn't have "rights." A university has no right to "protect its reputation" by disallowing the Communist Party's student organization from studying and working on campus, do they?

This talk of state universities having "rights" ....lol. Next thing you know, you'll be suggesting corporations are associations of persons with constitutional rights, like the SCOTUS held in Citizens United....

Of course state universities have rights. Are you saying they shouldn't have the right to protect their reputation from racists douchebags? Regardless of the morals etc, I imagine they have a legal right to kick any student out that doesn't fit the image of the institution. As long as that image isn't racist/sexist/homophobic etc. (although, in the US it wouldn't surprise me if they could for these reasons as well).

[JimC]

There has to be some limits on what criteria a university can use for getting rid of a student. If they were convicted of criminal behaviour, or if they were involved in anti-social behaviour on campus that breeched a previously stated code of conduct, fair enough. But dismissal for unpleasant but not illegal behaviour off campus may not fit those criteria.

Having said that, I do not agree with Forty Two that this was just harmless frat boy fun - they are probably little racists in training. But, this still may not be grounds for being thrown out of uni...

[Forty Two]

They entered an agreement with the Jesuit school, an agreement that provides mechanisms for compliance. Are you asserting the agreement is illegal or otherwise nonbinding?

Well, you'll have to link to or cite/quote the terms of the agreement. Which provision did the students breach? Or, are you suggesting that Fairfield has the right to sanction any students for behavior off campus that it decides is not conducive to the reputation of Fairfield University?

[Forty Two]

...
Might be insensitive for a black panther student group to have a racial segregated party in a private house to talk about the merits of a violent race war, too, but it's not the purview of a state college administrator to tell them what to do.

Why are you conflating this Ghetto Party with the Black Panther Party?

Theme Kegger =/= Organized political institution with a revolutionary charter and bylaws

A person's rights to associate or express themselves is not dependent on whether their purpose is for fun or for politics.

By your logic, a humorous themed kegger would be verboten, but a racist group or organization could have a get together because they're seriously political.

[Forty Two]

Yeah. They were lucky that all that came of this was "extended evening hours talks". The university has a right to protect it's reputation by determining exactly who they allow to study and work at their institution.

A state university, like any other arm of the government, doesn't have "rights." A university has no right to "protect its reputation" by disallowing the Communist Party's student organization from studying and working on campus, do they?

This talk of state universities having "rights" ....lol. Next thing you know, you'll be suggesting corporations are associations of persons with constitutional rights, like the SCOTUS held in Citizens United....

Of course state universities have rights. Are you saying they shouldn't have the right to protect their reputation from racists douchebags?

Only to the same extent as they would have the right to protect their reputation from Communist douchebags, feminist douchebags, progressive douchebags, Christian douchebags, Muslim douchebags, Republican douchebags, and the like. Racism is not illegal. I wouldn't want Liberty University to "protect its reputation" by throwing the Muslim Student Alliance off campus. I guess you think they should have that right, if they think their reputation is negatively effected.

Regardless of the morals etc, I imagine they have a legal right to kick any student out that doesn't fit the image of the institution.

Well, they don't, actually, not a state university, at least. A state university has to respect its student's free speech and free association rights, in the US anyway.

As long as that image isn't racist/sexist/homophobic etc. (although, in the US it wouldn't surprise me if they could for these reasons as well).

Well, students have a right to be racist, sexist or homophobic, and they have a right to advance those views. That's fundamental to freedom of thought and freedom of expression. So, the Nation of Islam, for example, can organize on campus, and even though they advance antisemitic and homophobic views, a state university cannot kick Nation of Islam members out of school for being Nation of Islam members or for advocating Nation of Islam positions.

[piscator]

They entered an agreement with the Jesuit school, an agreement that provides mechanisms for compliance. Are you asserting the agreement is illegal or otherwise nonbinding?

Well, you'll have to link to or cite/quote the terms of the agreement. Which provision did the students breach? Or, are you suggesting that Fairfield has the right to sanction any students for behavior off campus that it decides is not conducive to the reputation of Fairfield University?

Not quite. This is not a criminal or civil action against the students, and thus not a 1st Amendment issue. You can put down your Skousen Pocket Constitution.

This is between the private $58,000/yr Catholic school and its students.

And I think we can all rest assured Fairfield University has a student Code of Conduct which discourages racism in thought, word, or deed.

Fairfield University's strategic vision stresses the importance of "integration" as a way of approaching education. Collaboratively, the University's focus is on producing graduates whose lives reflect personal integration, competence in multicultural understanding, and a commitment to professional responsibility.

https://www.fairfield.edu/about-fairfie ... s-history/

[Svartalf]

It's the school defrauding its students of $ 50 K+ and on more than questionable grounds, so quite actionable.