Far-left, Anti-Austerity Party Triumphs in Greek Election.

[pErvinalia]

The rich pay most of the tax burden of the country, therefore it's their unpaid tax revenue that is missing from the country. If they could recover that, it would help. Punishing people who are now unemployed and without any liveable welfare for the greed of the rich and the corruption of government is cruel and unnecessary. But cruel and unnecessary sums up conservatives perfectly.

[Seth]

The rich pay most of the tax burden of the country, therefore it's their unpaid tax revenue that is missing from the country. If they could recover that, it would help. Punishing people who are now unemployed and without any liveable welfare for the greed of the rich and the corruption of government is cruel and unnecessary. But cruel and unnecessary sums up conservatives perfectly.

Depends on who you define as "the rich." In the US, attempting to apply your rather vague metric, that includes the top 50% of taxpayers who pay 93% of all income tax revenues collected.

Of course, you need to remember one of my fundamental tax analogies: Wealth flows away from taxes like water runs downhill. In the case of Greece, the top 1 percenters simply leave Greece with their assets and set up shop where taxes are more fair and amenable to capitalism.

And while I'm quite sure you would have no compunctions whatever about seizing all of their assets and redistributing them, as has been done by Mubabe in Zimbabwe, the end result of doing so is the same as what's happened in Zimbabwe: Rampant inflation, hunger, starvation, civil conflict and corruption. Seizing all the white farmer's lands in Zimbabwe (and killing most of them) didn't improve the lot of blacks, it made it orders of magnitude worse because the people Mugabe gave the land to don't know how to farm or ranch it, so it goes to waste and nothing is produced.

If you confiscated the entire wealth of the top 1 percent of "the rich" in the US and put it directly into the treasury, it would pay for the operations of government for a month or two, no more. And then the job producers, who are an essential part of creating a constant and predictable stream of wealth, will not have any capital with which to create jobs, and the society will fail economically, just as Zimbabwe's and Cuba's has.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, you can't get something for nothing, and you can't get blood from a turnip, and when you bind the mouths of the kine that tread the grain you get no flour and when you removed the capitalistic free-market profit incentive from the economy by confiscating the wealth of the productive class, the productive class stops being productive and becomes part of the dependent class, and alas, there is no one making anything or generating any wealth, and so the proletarian worker is enslaved to the state to produce essential goods like food and his worth is measured in the number of potatoes he can produce...and if he doesn't produce his quota, he gets liquidated.

Sounds like the Soviet Union, doesn't it?

That's because the Soviet Union is the very best example of the inherent evil and inevitable failure of socialism that exists.

[JimC]

It is not a matter of confiscating the entire wealth of the rich, but enacting legislation which will prevent them using loop-holes discovered by well-payed lawyers which mean they pay considerably less than their fair share, even if we are talking non-progressive taxation...

Then there is the whole issue of multi-national corporations paying very little tax indeed in any jurisdiction, again by using their power and financial impact to avoid as much taxation as they possibly can...

Those of us in the centre of politics are well aware of the fact that taxation and regulation of wealth generating enterprises can go too far, and stifle innovation and investment in industry. However, the pendulum of power is pretty clearly swung to the other side of the ledger...

[rainbow]

And while I'm quite sure you would have no compunctions whatever about seizing all of their assets and redistributing them, as has been done by Mubabe in Zimbabwe, the end result of doing so is the same as what's happened in Zimbabwe: Rampant inflation, hunger, starvation, civil conflict and corruption. Seizing all the white farmer's lands in Zimbabwe (and killing most of them) didn't improve the lot of blacks, it made it orders of magnitude worse because the people Mugabe gave the land to don't know how to farm or ranch it, so it goes to waste and nothing is produced.

Are you sure about that?


If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything at all.

[rainbow]

My guess is that the new Greek government will collapse in a few weeks.

Watch this space.

[JimC]

And while I'm quite sure you would have no compunctions whatever about seizing all of their assets and redistributing them, as has been done by Mubabe in Zimbabwe, the end result of doing so is the same as what's happened in Zimbabwe: Rampant inflation, hunger, starvation, civil conflict and corruption. Seizing all the white farmer's lands in Zimbabwe (and killing most of them) didn't improve the lot of blacks, it made it orders of magnitude worse because the people Mugabe gave the land to don't know how to farm or ranch it, so it goes to waste and nothing is produced.

Are you sure about that?


If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything at all.

"most" could be replaced by "some", but not by none...

[pErvinalia]

If you confiscated the entire wealth of the top 1 percent of "the rich"

Strawman. No need to read the rest. As usual.

[pErvinalia]

And the Zimbabwe analogy is ridiculous too. It's not even a slightly related phenomenon.

[piscator]

If you confiscated the entire wealth of the top 1 percent of "the rich"

Strawman. No need to read the rest. As usual.

Plus, it's an old Rush Limbaugh shtick.

If you confiscated the entire wealth if the top 1% of America, you'd have about 68% of the US M1, and armies of motherfuckers crawling through the windows to get it back.
Conversely, if you kill the 1% and scatter their $$ and guts to the 4 winds from helicopters, the entire nation of Britain would move here to sweep streets and we'd end up treating them like Mexicans. So it's just a flawed premise.

[Seth]

It is not a matter of confiscating the entire wealth of the rich, but enacting legislation which will prevent them using loop-holes discovered by well-payed lawyers which mean they pay considerably less than their fair share, even if we are talking non-progressive taxation.

Nonsense. They pay exactly their fair share as dictated by the government. The government says "you owe this much tax" and the rich pay it. If you don't like how the tax code works, and I'd agree with you if you didn't, that's a POLITICAL matter, not a legal one. Companies break no laws nor any moral strictures by only paying the tax that they owe. It is in fact a right of taxpayers to pay as little tax as they are legally compelled to pay and not a penny more. The Supreme Court has in fact said that the right to avoid taxes is among the unenumerated rights citizens enjoy.

Then there is the whole issue of multi-national corporations paying very little tax indeed in any jurisdiction, again by using their power and financial impact to avoid as much taxation as they possibly can...

Again, a political problem, not an economic one. Capital avoids taxation. It always has, since the very beginning of taxation in fact. And that's a good thing, because government should always be forced to thoroughly and completely justify all taxes and account for how they are spent, and they shouldn't get a dollar more than the taxpayer is legally obligated to pay.

Those of us in the centre of politics are well aware of the fact that taxation and regulation of wealth generating enterprises can go too far, and stifle innovation and investment in industry. However, the pendulum of power is pretty clearly swung to the other side of the ledger...

What utter nonsense. Must I point out that the top one percent paid thirty seven percent of taxes, the top five percent paid fifty-nine percent of taxes, the top ten percent paid seventy percent of the taxes, the top twenty five percent paid eighty-seven percent and the top fifty percent paid 91 percent, whereas the bottom fifty percent paid two percent.

The top ten percent of taxpayers, who pay seventy percent of the taxes, consist of everyone who makes more than $112,124 per year, which isn't exactly George Soros territory, it's distinctly upper middle class. The top one percent consist of those making more than $343,927, which still isn't what I'd call "rich."

So how on earth do you figure that pendulum of power has swung "to the other side of the ledger?"

Moreover, how much is enough for you socialist swine? My guess is it's never enough, right up until every person on the planet is mired in the same hopeless grey poverty as every other person on earth, so we can all share equally the misery that is the inevitable consequence of socialism.

[Seth]

And the Zimbabwe analogy is ridiculous too. It's not even a slightly related phenomenon.

Actually it's a very apt analogy.

[pErvinalia]

No it's not. Giving farms to people who don't know how to farm has nothing to do with taxing people who rorted the system for years. Fuck you come up with some dumbass analogies.

[Seth]

No it's not. Giving farms to people who don't know how to farm has nothing to do with taxing people who rorted the system for years. Fuck you come up with some dumbass analogies.

Er, the point is that when you destroy the ability or willingness of the productive class to produce wealth and provide jobs, the economy founders. Doesn't matter if you do it because you're a racist fuck like Mugbawe or a socialist. Different motivations, same exact result.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, expect that's not how economies work. Demand drives economies, not supply.

[mistermack]

Greeks need to tax assets. You can hide income, but assets are harder.

Have all assets declared and registered, and if it's not registered, you lose it.

Pay the tax men commission only. And take their assets and jail them, if they are caught taking bribes.