To Hell and Frack: UK Shale Gas Reserves

[macdoc]

Fracking has been done for decades BUT in the gold rush for gas reserves it's been done in a very sloppy manner n some cases.

The gas is thousands of feet below the water table BUT the casing has to be secure .

The chemicals are horrid and are pumped back out and not handled well and that can get into the watershed.

So good if done carefully

Horror show if not highly regulated.

and it should be accompanied with closing of coal plants as that really helps emissions.

[Seth]

Fracking has indeed been done for decades and the EPA has confirmed exactly ONE instance where fracking fluid has been detected in a water table, and that's in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming.

NO other complaints have been sustained by scientific evidence.

There HAVE been cases of natural gas getting into water tables, but that happens naturally with some frequency and it's pretty difficult to attribute such leaks to gas drilling, given that the earth is moving all the time and fractures allowing gas to flow upwards from 8000 feet down happen without human involvement.

That being said, the biggest nuisance and danger from gas drilling is the AIR POLLUTION that occurs around well heads from the venting of gas and other chemicals being dispersed into the air, mostly during drilling, usually as a result of using drilling mud pits rather than closed-loop systems.

That's a legitimate concern and many states are outlawing pits and are requiring closed-loop systems where they haul the used drilling mud to authorized disposal sites.

And the other major problem we face here is the "split estate" where the surface owner does not own the minerals underground which results in leases being sold to drillers who can put a rig basically anywhere they want to get at the resource, which means we get gas drilling rigs within a hundred feet of the surface owner's home. Sometimes the drilling companies won't even notify the surface owner at all, much less negotiate where to put the well, they just show up one day and start bulldozing a pad right next to the kid's bedroom, and there's very little that can be done about it. The anti-frac people would be far more effective if they protested for stronger siting and environmental remediation controls than worrying about fracking, which has never been proven to be a hazard.

[Seth]

and it should be accompanied with closing of coal plants as that really helps emissions.

If you thought your electric rates are high now, just wait till coal is banned...as Obama is trying to do right this minute in the US.

Obama said himself, during the campaign, "Under my plan energy costs would skyrocket."

And they will.

So, if you want to be "green," we'll tolerate no bitching about gas, petrol or electric costs ever again.

[rainbow]

No fracking, even brits have a right to reasonably clean drinking water.

Yes, I do believe they treat their water before it goes into their taps.

How do you properly treat your water when you don't even know what's gone into the water table?

You analyse the water. Not rocket science.

If there is anything there that shouldn't be, you make whoever put it there, pay for taking it out.

The principle is the "Polluter Pays".


So where's the problem?

[JimC]

No fracking, even brits have a right to reasonably clean drinking water.

Yes, I do believe they treat their water before it goes into their taps.

How do you properly treat your water when you don't even know what's gone into the water table?

You analyse the water. Not rocket science.

If there is anything there that shouldn't be, you make whoever put it there, pay for taking it out.

The principle is the "Polluter Pays".


So where's the problem?

In many places, the political will to make that happen, when the politicians themselves are beholden to the big companies involved...

[macdoc]

If you thought your electric rates are high now, just wait till coal is banned...as Obama is trying to do right this minute in the US.

the usual drivel - downstream costs of using coal for power makes it completely untenable
http://www.skepticalscience.com/true-co ... power.html
and here's a libby supporting lack of responsibility. The hypocrisy is precious
Coal is not and never has been cheap when it's accounted for. Get over it - coal is at the end.

and electricity prices are NOT high in the least - solar is now cheaper than coal without subsidies

Solar is about to Change our World
April 18, 2013 By Michael Sankowski
I’ve been getting into Solar lately – the fall in prices has been absolutely shocking over the last 2-4 years. We are seeing price drops closer to 20% per year after several decades at 6% price drops per year. 6% year is a fantastic rate of decreases, but 20% is simply astonishing.
20% is an impressive number, but putting it into context will make your jaw drop with astonishment. My calculations show that if solar maintains 5 more years at current 23% rates per year price drops, solar power will be cheaper than using existing coal plants. That’s right – it will be cheaper to build new solar plants than to use existing coal plants.
It sounds absolutely crazy. But it seems true looking at the data.
First, look at this paper showing the levelized cost levels for using Coal and Natural gas. In this chart, we can see the Levelized cost of electricity for different types of energy. Photovoltaic Solar has a high initial cost, but after paying for the system, the cost goes to the lowest among any source of energy. .

http://monetaryrealism.com/solar-is-abo ... our-world/

and

Installation involves men moving stuff with their hands. The installation business will be gigantic and will almost certainly turn around our entire economy in about 4 years. There will be a million jobs for solar panel installers in 7-10.

yet your fellow traveller Repuglies keep subsidizing fossil fools....wonder why that is....a bought government??

Fracking in a responsible manner buys time to move to lower carbon and gas is quick on and off so is a load leveler
The US is moving there quite admirably thanks to gas use replacing coal with emissions now down to 1990 levels and individual states are doing even better.
Obama's executive action on coal plants will push this further along.

[rainbow]

In many places, the political will to make that happen, when the politicians themselves are beholden to the big companies involved...

Then you're stuffed. Fracking, or not.

[pErvinalia]

No fracking, even brits have a right to reasonably clean drinking water.

Yes, I do believe they treat their water before it goes into their taps.

How do you properly treat your water when you don't even know what's gone into the water table?

You analyse the water. Not rocket science.

If there is anything there that shouldn't be, you make whoever put it there, pay for taking it out.

The principle is the "Polluter Pays".


So where's the problem?

You need to read up on how these companies are subverting proper environmental audits and regulations. We have just had a significant piece of legislation pass here in Australia to hold the companies to a higher standard in regards to environmental standards. The states, because they benefit most from coal seam gas mining, have relaxed environmental regulations specifically for CSG companies. It's basically just a giant cash grab gluttony. Anyway, the feds have passed legislation saying they can halt a project if the greedy states are falling down in their environmental obligations.

Do you need to perhaps declare anything to us, Rainbow?

[rainbow]

Do you need to perhaps declare anything to us, Rainbow?

Yes. rainbow is spelt with a small 'r'.

[pErvinalia]

Any affiliations with gas companies, rainbow?

[rainbow]

Any affiliations with gas companies, rainbow?

None at all.
The point I'm making is that if fracking companies can break the law, so can other utilities.
How about the mining companies that dig up Rare Earth Metals, that are required for your 'green' hybrid?
Any idea what they do with the Thorium that is a byproduct?



Ah but then they do that in China, so it doesn't matter, I guess?

[pErvinalia]

Nice strawman.

I just get alarm bells when I see people simply dismissing concerns about fracking. Not when it's Seth, of course. But that's different.

[macdoc]

Any idea what they do with the Thorium that is a byproduct?

save it for reactors

[Faithfree]

It is an increasing issue in areas of Queensland and NSW. Underground water resources are very important in Oz, so I am generally opposed, if harmful chemicals need to be injected to release the gas.

The OP was about shale gas, the current issues in Australia are about coal seam gas. There are very major differences, although I admit they both involve different applications of 'fraccing'.

[Seth]

No fracking, even brits have a right to reasonably clean drinking water.

Yes, I do believe they treat their water before it goes into their taps.

How do you properly treat your water when you don't even know what's gone into the water table?

You analyse the water. Not rocket science.

If there is anything there that shouldn't be, you make whoever put it there, pay for taking it out.

The principle is the "Polluter Pays".


So where's the problem?

In many places, the political will to make that happen, when the politicians themselves are beholden to the big companies involved...

Well, not really. If the "political will" is not there it's the political will of the people who evidently are saying "fracking is not a big deal and a few loony strident voices purveying misinformation should not force us to pay more for our energy needs."

I love how the gummint is all wonderful and everything when it's supporting your favorite socialist cause, but when it's not, it's corrupt legislators to blame.

Ever think maybe it's democracy at work and your opinion doesn't reflect the will of the people?