response to emerging independent science on the 9/11 attacks

[GrahamH]

What I know of Griffin's views leaves me deeply unimpressed. He doesn't seem to approach the subject with any rigour or scepticism. I looks at hos stuff a while ago so I can;t quote you something, but I clearly recall seeing his arguments as very weak.

I'm not asking for a book. Just give us a summary of what you think did and did not happen. You can leave the real unknowns out for now. Focus on what you are confident about and could back up with evidence if asked to.

GrahamH,

If you really believe the USAgovt version, i'd like to see the evidence for their claims.

What i guess/presume happened is they used some patsies to take airplane lessons, so they could blame them later, got together with the owner of Twin Towers which were asbestos laden and no longer a revenue, slowly had "teams" place the army-made explosives (i am not versed in that stuff) highly insured the buildings, "fortified" a side of the Pentagon with certain missile guidance system, took some remote controlled jets, loaded them with extra explosive charges, re-routed two or three of the jets to Ohio, made them land. (who knows what happened to the passengers? they were forced to make phone calls?)( maybe put them all into the) one jet that got shot down over Pa.?, sent a missile into Pentagon via something that was made to look like a plane. Got people into the right position to say within an hour or so it was done by A-Q. Some decided to make even more money and took out put options on the airplane companies.
I can imagine some readers will say: all speculation, where is the evidence now. BUT that is not what Graham wanted. He wanted me to say what i think happened. So many people are now saying that the mossad had a hand in this whole thing. I wouldn't put it past them, but i wonder WHY- what their motivation to do this would be. So i'd like to remain sceptical on that part.
The arms industry wanted a war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Control over oil and poppy fields and a presence in the region. They needed a reason to go into war. They wrote and re-read Northwoods, they read a novel by an israeli that has this "story line". They probably thought, we control the media, we can pull it off: drone it into the heads of people (Bernays) enough times, and make disbelievers look stupid etc. etc.
What they forget is that the USA universities have (produced) independent thinking - smart people who are not afraid to speak up when they see foul play. Thank goodness.

Thank you Conny.

So, do you claim to have evidence to establish any of these things beyond reasonable doubt?

[llanitedave]

I can imagine some readers will say: all speculation, where is the evidence now.

No, that's not even speculation. It's sheer wishful invention. You could have with just as much credibility blamed goblins.

[Tigger]

Why is this topic in the "serious stuff" area?

[Trolldor]

I can imagine some readers will say: all speculation, where is the evidence now.

No, that's not even speculation. It's sheer wishful invention. You could have with just as much credibility blamed goblins.

Ah, but Goblins do exist.

[Animavore]

slowly had "teams" place the army-made explosives

How did they manage to stuff the building with explosives without anyone noticing?
Have you ever seen a building being demolished? You have to drill holes into the supporting columns, place in your explosives and then pack the hole in with cement out of which would be two wires one going to the columns on either side as they all have to be connected together in a circuit for detonation.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that no one noticed this happening in a building that runs 24/7? No one noticed yellow wires sticking out of the columns?
And who are these "teams" anyway? Where did they get them from? You don't honestly believe that patriotic soldiers who love their country would attack their own people do you? Who do you even ask to do that? How would you know which people would go for it and which would blow the whistle straight away? Ever heard of Watergate? A small handful of people can't even keep a secret let alone a few hundred.

And that's only one of your sentences in that completely illogical and unfounded piece you wrote!

Fuck sake.

[Tigger]

I admire the people who've responded to this nonsense with science and rational responses. Very measured arguments.

Faked moon landings anyone?

Is Obama a lizard?

[Trolldor]

A lot of people spend time refuting conspiracy theorists without realising it doesn't work, and here's why:

"That's what they want you to think!"

Anything which is contrary to what they wish is 'fabricated', part of the cover-up. It's like talking to a fundie.

[Clinton Huxley]

So, to summarise:-

1) They used some patsies to take airplane lessons, so they could blame them later,
2) got together with the owner of Twin Towers and which were asbestos laden and no longer a revenue,
3) slowly had "teams" place the army-made explosives (i am not versed in that stuff) highly insured the buildings,
4) "fortified" a side of the Pentagon with certain missile guidance system,
5) took some remote controlled jets, loaded them with extra explosive charges,
6) re-routed two or three of the jets to Ohio,
7) made them land. (who knows what happened to the passengers? they were forced to make phone calls?)( maybe put them all into the) one jet that got shot down over Pa.?,
8) sent a missile into Pentagon
9) via something that was made to look like a plane.
10) Got people into the right position to say within an hour or so it was done by A-Q.
11) Some decided to make even more money and took out put options on the airplane companies.

So, the only people who knew about the conspiracy were the patsies, the flight training company, the owners of the Twin Towers, the teams of army demolitions experts, the contractors who fortified the Pentagon and presumably the people working on that side of the Pentagon at the time, the contractors who made the remote-controlled jets, air-traffic control, agents forcing people to make phone calls, those who launched the missile at the Pentagon and the contractors who made the missile look like a plane, the stooges crediting it all to Al-Quaeda and the rest of the English-speaking world? Did I miss anyone out?

[GrahamH]

A lot of people spend time refuting conspiracy theorists without realising it doesn't work, and here's why:

"That's what they want you to think!"

Anything which is contrary to what they wish is 'fabricated', part of the cover-up. It's like talking to a fundie.

Yes, it is exactly like talking to a fundie. CTs have an unshakable faith in The Truth that has nothing to do with hard evidence.

[GrahamH]

So, to summarise:-

1) They used some patsies to take airplane lessons, so they could blame them later,
2) got together with the owner of Twin Towers and which were asbestos laden and no longer a revenue,
3) slowly had "teams" place the army-made explosives (i am not versed in that stuff) highly insured the buildings,
4) "fortified" a side of the Pentagon with certain missile guidance system,
5) took some remote controlled jets, loaded them with extra explosive charges,
6) re-routed two or three of the jets to Ohio,
7) made them land. (who knows what happened to the passengers? they were forced to make phone calls?)( maybe put them all into the) one jet that got shot down over Pa.?,
8) sent a missile into Pentagon
9) via something that was made to look like a plane.
10) Got people into the right position to say within an hour or so it was done by A-Q.
11) Some decided to make even more money and took out put options on the airplane companies.

So, the only people who knew about the conspiracy were the patsies, the flight training company, the owners of the Twin Towers, the teams of army demolitions experts, the contractors who fortified the Pentagon and presumably the people working on that side of the Pentagon at the time, the contractors who made the remote-controlled jets, air-traffic control, agents forcing people to make phone calls, those who launched the missile at the Pentagon and the contractors who made the missile look like a plane, the stooges crediting it all to Al-Quaeda and the rest of the English-speaking world? Did I miss anyone out?

Man, this thing is BIG!

[Animavore]

Did I miss anyone out?

The President. This shit goes all the way to the top man.

[Trolldor]

No man, the President is a stooge, it's the illuminati which control it all! They're fighting the Freemasons who are actually a subsidary of the Greys!

[Clinton Huxley]

If you are not part of the conspiracy, you are part of the conspiracy

[Trolldor]

That's what they want you to think!

[Clinton Huxley]

That's what they want you to think!

That's what I think I want....errr...no, hang on, that's not it....err...I think they want me to want to think that.......hmmm?