People Who Hang Themselves

[Cunt]

Mainly because they couldn't bear it. If they killed themselves rather than experience more of it, what would you call it other than unbearable (to them)?

If you were talking about the mythical scorpion stinging itself to death, I would agree that the degree of pain is directly related to the suicide.
But humans are very different. We have a consciousness of self, and make intellectual decisions. And very often we make very bad decisions. You say suicide always = unbearable pain.
I say suicide very often = very bad decision.

This is a false dichotomy. There is no reason it can't be both.
Whether someone suicides slowly with cigarettes of fatty foods, or quickly with a gun, I think it can be a very bad decision which should STILL be respected.
You don't have to agree with it to respect it, by the way.

You are denying humans that which makes us human. The ability to think.

I don't see where I did that.

As far as belittling goes, I said I don't belittle the people who kill themselves out of unbearable pain. I was referring to them, not the ones who make an impulsive decision, when drunk or drugged. And for motives they very often belittle themselves, if they survive it.
It's not belittling someone to say they make a bad decision.

Is it belittling to suggest that you only posted this because you were drunk? What about saying it was a very bad decision you would belittle yourself for later?

Could you EVER respect someone's decision to off themselves? What if they said the reasons were not your business? Could you respect their decision then?

Now, what if they told you the reasons, but you disagreed with them? Could you respect their decision then?

And those who died stand behind their decisions.

I'm glad you can joke about it.

No joke. You are saying the ones who survive, by luck or by intervention, are saying that it was the right decision. I am simply pointing out that there is another perspective. Just as valuable, too.

What's your point? That those who survive attempts say that they are happy? Not all of them are, mistermack. I am suggesting respecting both groups.

I spend most of my life neither happy or unhappy. I don't get your point. Sometimes you are happier than others. Kill yourself when you're unhappy, you miss out on everything from then on.

That makes sense to me, but I wouldn't force it on someone else.
Would you?

I don't get your point about respect. I neither respect nor disrespect total strangers. But if I hear about someone doing something dumb, am I supposed to respect that decision? Not me. But it doesn't matter one bit whether I respect it or not.
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What I am talking about when I say I respect their decisions, is that I don't say that the only reason they did it was because they were drunk and made bad decisions.
I know about a fellow here in my town, who got all fucked up on drugs and did himself in. Many said that he only made the decision because he was high. I think he may have done himself because the drug-people he fucked up with were going to damage he AND his family because of his fuckup.

He checked out, maybe, to protect them from the repercussions of his error.

It may not be true, there is really no way to know, but the spite of the drug dealers he fucked with stopped landing at his parents door.

I think he could have made several more sensible decisions, but I wouldn't bother trash-talking him now that he has decided. Some lament about how selfish and fucked up he was. I simply accept his decision as the right one for him. His family may not agree, but if my guess about the drug dealers is correct, they are getting the benefit of his decision.

I also respect your decision to keep writing sweeping generalizations about suicide and those who have survived suicide attempts. Even though every single one is an individual decision which may in fact be the right decision.

[mistermack]

I don't get how you think I'm the illogical or uncaring one here. The vast majority of the world's population thinks like I do. Most have specially trained officers who try to reason with suicidal people.
I think I would have a lot to say to a policeman who counselled my kid with stuff like you recommend. "You jump mate, I respect your decision. If you can't stand the pain, get it over with now. Do it now while you're sloshed, you might not have the nerve when you're sober."

You may think that the rest of the world is stupid, and you are right, but they pass laws and get to where they are by hundreds of years of experience, not theorising on forums. By the experience of people going and thanking police negotiators for talking them out of it. etc etc.

You keep on about respect, as if it matters. If you are stone cold in a drawer, in a morgue, it doesn't matter if people respect you or not. They could plaster your remains in silly makeup, and write the word idiot on your belly, it wouldn't affect you in the slightest, because you no longer exist. As far as I'm concerned, suicide is the dumbest, most selfish decision anybody can make, except for a tiny tiny few. So I'm never going to respect that decision. But SO WHAT? The people I belittle, ( as you put it ) or disrespect, do not exist. So who cares what I think?
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[mistermack]

That makes sense to me, but I wouldn't force it on someone else.
Would you?

I certainly would, if I had the chance. They don't write "suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed" on death certificates for no good reason. And there's one thing you've ignored. It's never too late for suicide. You always get another go. It's only too late if you're dead. So yes, I would certainly stop someone by force.
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[FBM]

Wrt splitting the topic: Yes, this derail has strayed quite far afield. Cunt, if you start a thread and give it a title that relects the main idea you see developing, I'll split the relevant posts to it.

[Berthold]

They don't write "suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed" on death certificates for no good reason.

One of the reasons being the tradition that victims of suicide were buried outside the graveyard. The Church "forgave" the act only when supposing that the person had been temporarily insane.

[Cunt]

They don't write "suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed" on death certificates for no good reason.

One of the reasons being the tradition that victims of suicide were buried outside the graveyard. The Church "forgave" the act only when supposing that the person had been temporarily insane.

I think much of the attitudes toward suicide are from religious mores, plus a bunch of selfish whining from 'survivors' who would rather not face the reality that not everyone values their life.

I advocate respect for life which, to me, must include the right to end it at will.

[Svartalf]

and why should you value your life when all your existence is in the shits and the only perspective you can perceive for your future is more suffering and nothing to make it worthwhile?

[Cunt]

and why should you value your life when all your existence is in the shits and the only perspective you can perceive for your future is more suffering and nothing to make it worthwhile?

Why? There are many reasons, but if someone can't or won't find them, life would be a bleak prospect indeed.

No matter how valuable I think it is, I wouldn't force someone to enjoy it.

[Svartalf]

Bleak doesn't even describe it... there are bleak landscapes that still have beauty, but to somebody in the throes of deep depression, beauty is something they can't even see in an art masterwork near their deam partner prancing naked in front of them and begging for sex.

[Cunt]

Bleak doesn't even describe it... there are bleak landscapes that still have beauty, but to somebody in the throes of deep depression, beauty is something they can't even see in an art masterwork near their deam partner prancing naked in front of them and begging for sex.

I have had a sip of such. I don't think I can imagine living with it every day...

back to the O/T though, do you think, as I do, that hanging is popular because it is popular?

There was a suggestion on 4chan that someone decapitate themselves and make it look like they tore their own head off...silly as it is, I expect it will happen...

[Svartalf]

Hanging? my guess is it's popular because it's easy to perform at home.

When you're that deep down, you may not even be up to going to the nearest body of water to throw yourself into it.

And while there are recorded cases of people slitting their own throats, not everybody will have a firm enough hand to do it... hanging, if from a doorknob has the advantage that when you've started, it's darn hard to stop it.

[Cunt]

Hanging? my guess is it's popular because it's easy to perform at home.

When you're that deep down, you may not even be up to going to the nearest body of water to throw yourself into it.

And while there are recorded cases of people slitting their own throats, not everybody will have a firm enough hand to do it... hanging, if from a doorknob has the advantage that when you've started, it's darn hard to stop it.

I had not considered that depression causing people to stay home might have an effect (TOLD you I had a tough time imagining) interesting slant on it, Svartalf.

[Svartalf]

well, my problem is that I'm too afraid of stopping to even get the balls to perform the act (that and I'm not sure the pharmaceuticals I have at hand would perform the job, and don't want to deal with the bother of doing it wrong)

[Cunt]

well, my problem is that I'm too afraid of stopping to even get the balls to perform the act (that and I'm not sure the pharmaceuticals I have at hand would perform the job, and don't want to deal with the bother of doing it wrong)

I would suggest that a failed attempt would bring much attention to you. If it were me, I would rather not have that kind of attention.

Your fear of failure may lead to some interesting reasons to keep going, though. For instance, you may, just by participating in this thread, open someone's eyes to the fact that people have the right to spend their lives. That, while maybe not improving your lot, improves mine and everyone elses. Thanks.