Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

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Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Pappa » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:47 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12191423

This is funny.
Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Pope Benedict XVI has formally approved a miracle attributed to his late predecessor, paving the way to John Paul II's beatification on 1 May.

The process of beatification, or declaring the late pontiff to be "blessed", is a crucial step towards making him a saint.

John Paul II died in 2005 after a papacy of nearly 27 years.

The Vatican credits him with the miraculous cure of a nun said to have had Parkinson's Disease.

Church officials believe that the Polish pope, who himself suffered from the condition, interceded for the miraculous cure of Sister Marie Simon-Pierre, a Frenchwoman in her late forties.

She has said her illness inexplicably disappeared two months after John Paul II's death, after she and her fellow nuns had prayed to him.

Church-appointed doctors agreed that there was no medical explanation for the curing of the nun, although last year there were some doubts about the validity of the miracle.
Sister Marie Simon-Pierre (centre right) attends a ceremony in San Giovanni Basilica in Rome, 2 April 2007 Sister Marie Simon-Pierre (centre right) said her life had begun over again after her cure

A Polish newspaper said that a doctor who scrutinised the nun's case had concluded that she might have been suffering not from Parkinson's, but from a nervous disorder from which temporary recovery is medically possible.

Up to a million people are expected to gather in Rome for the beatification.

The following month, Pope Benedict put him on a fast track to sainthood by dispensing with Church rules that normally impose a five-year waiting period after a candidate's death before the beatification procedure can start.

Work is under way in St Peter's Basilica to make space for John Paul II's tomb since, in accordance with tradition, the remains of popes who are beatified are moved up from the crypt to the nave.

"John Paul II's coffin will be moved in St Peter's Basilica from the Vatican crypt without being opened," said Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi.

His body will not be displayed but placed in a tomb under a simple marble stone reading "Beatus Ioannes Paulus II" (Blessed John Paul II).

In order for John Paul II to be canonised as a saint, a second miracle would have to be verified following the beatification.
Some comments here too:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/ ... be_be.html
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:04 pm

Can we beatify him with clubs?
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:05 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:Can we beatify him with clubs?
I think beating up corpses is probably taking the symbolism a little too far.

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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:07 pm

Thinking Aloud wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Can we beatify him with clubs?
I think beating up corpses is probably taking the symbolism a little too far.
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Pappa » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:07 pm

It reminds me of the remark Dawkins got out of some cardinal at Lourdes, that only one person had ever been successfully healed there (IIRK).
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:11 pm

Pappa wrote:It reminds me of the remark Dawkins got out of some cardinal at Lourdes, that only one person had ever been successfully healed there (IIRK).
That's pretty much a Sainthood guaranteed for the Dawk then.

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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Pappa » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:40 pm

Pappa wrote:It reminds me of the remark Dawkins got out of some cardinal at Lourdes, that only one person had ever been successfully healed there (IIRK).
My numbers were way off mark, but here it is from Wiki:
In his documentary The Root of All Evil, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins visits Lourdes and expresses doubts as to the "miraculous" nature of the cures, remarking on the lack of statistical evidence of any supernatural activity (despite receiving over eighty thousand pilgrims a year, less than 70 "declared miracles" have occurred) and the fact that all the declared miracles are for diseases that may have healed themselves anyway; nobody has reported the regrowing of a severed limb, for example.
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by mistermack » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:29 pm

As well as these "miracles" conveniently of being cures of hard-to-diagnose ailments, it's also highly suspicious when they happen to a nun.
How difficult would it be to read up on the symptoms, and "imagine" that you were suffering from them? And a friendly catholic doctor is not going to be too critical.

The other advantage of using a nun is that she is hardly going to announce to the world a few years later that it was all a con. They need to be totally sure that their "miracles" stand the test of time, and don't get refuted later.

The Catholic Church really should try harder with it's cons.
The thing is though, they are only interested in convincing the gullible, so they need not worry.
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Re: ope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:18 pm

They said on the Radio that the nun had prayed to the former pontiff and had been cured of her Parkinsons disease, an incurable degenerative neurological disorder. If the pontiff had it within his power to pull off this phenomenal and unprecedented medical miracle why didn't he cure himself of the same disorder while he was at it? Twat.
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Pappa » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:22 pm

Also.... he was dead when he did it. Is that normal?
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:33 pm

Pappa wrote:Also.... he was dead when he did it. Is that normal?
Oh right, he must've picked up the cure from God's coffee table or something, but I thought you (yes you) had to do your miracles when you (yes you) were alive to qualify for identification after your (yes your) death.

:dono:

He's still a twat though, right?
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Re: Pope paves way to beatification of John Paul II

Post by sandinista » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:54 pm

fuck is that ridiculous, what a bunch of fucking bullshit. Christian nutjobs.
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The new Saint John Paul - how fucking nuts is this!?

Post by Rum » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:15 pm

If you want to get mad because of the sheer insanity read this to the end. From the BBC at:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12192639

The 'miracle' that led towards beatification
By Stephanie Holmes BBC News

The signing of a decree by Pope Benedict XVI recognising that a miracle took place at the intercession of John Paul II represents the final step to beatification for the late pontiff.

It is the culmination of a process that was initiated officially in June 2005, two months after his death, but that had been called for by his faithful even before he breathed his last.

Normally, the process of beatification - or declaring "blessed" - cannot begin until five years after the candidate's death, but Pope Benedict XVI made a special exception for his predecessor, such was the strength of feeling among many Catholics.

"This has been an accelerated process," Andrea Tornielli, a Vatican expert and journalist with Italian daily Il Giornale, told the BBC.

"Just this morning Cardinal Angelo Amato - the Prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints - said that things had been speeded up, fast-tracked if you like. But it was still done with the utmost care.

"A special dispensation was granted, just as John Paul II did himself for the beatification of Mother Teresa of Calcutta."

The key to John Paul II reaching the status of blessed lies with a young French nun, whose experience has been judged a miracle.

Sister Marie Simon-Pierre was 44 and working as a nurse in a hospital maternity unit near Arles, in southern France, when she fell ill, in 2001.

Diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease, she described how the neurological condition worsened dramatically following the death of John Paul II, on 2 April 2005.

As soon as the special dispensation had been granted to allow John Paul II to be considered for beatification, her community began to pray to him for a miracle.

Of course it was the same illness that John Paul had suffered from 1992, and which had shaped the final years of his life”

"My fellow sisters from all the French and African communities started asking John Paul II to intercede for my healing. They prayed incessantly, tirelessly, right up to the news of my healing," she has described.

She explained that she knew she was healed when she was able to hold a pen and write his name on a piece of paper.

"And my handwriting was perfectly legible! Astonishing! I laid on my bed, amazed. Exactly two months has passed since John Paul II returned to the House of the Father. I awoke at 4:30, amazed at having been able to sleep. I suddenly got out of bed: my body was no longer painful, there was no rigidity and, inside, I was no longer the same."

On Friday, after months of deliberations and a complex process that has involved both medical experts and Church officials, Pope Benedict XVI confirmed that such a dramatic and scientifically inexplicable shift in her physical condition was indeed due to the intercession of John Paul II.

John Paul II on St Peter's Square, 18 May 2003 John Paul II suffered from Parkinson's Disease himself

The case fulfilled the criteria for a miracle - the healing was instant, without scientific explanation and long-lasting.

"Her case is exceptional as we know that you cannot normally be cured of neurological diseases. As far as I know there are no documented cases in medicine of a regression of such kinds of illnesses," Mr Andrea Tornielli said.

"That is why the case was so emblematic - and of course it was the same illness that John Paul had suffered from 1992, and which had shaped the final years of his life."

The path was not entirely smooth, however.

"One of the French doctors who was treating the sister does not believe in the supernatural. Well, when he saw she was healed, he said that if she was now better, she could not have had Parkinson's Disease," Mr Tornielli said.

According to medical experts, is not easy to diagnose Parkinson's, as there are no particular tests that can prove whether or not someone has the condition. It is also possible to mis-diagnose it.

The process was lengthy - with an initial investigation initiated by the Bishop of Arles, before all medical documents were forwarded to the Vatican.

They are then deliberated upon by a series of panels, including between five and 10 medical experts. The secretive process is likely to have taken into account whether or not there was a medical explanation for a sudden change in her condition.

These may have included what medical experts suggested at the time could be "psychiatric mimics", which can show similar symptoms as Parkinson's disease, but those symptoms cannot be attributed to neurological disease.

According to Mr Tornielli, the vote on a lack of a scientific explanation does not have to be unanimous, but a majority must be achieved.

Other panels comprising theologians, then bishops and cardinals will have reviewed the case, before it was finally pronounced upon and approved by Pope Benedict XVI.

There was no shortage of potential candidates for a miraculous cure, Mr Tornielli said: "They collected dozens of examples - some of them, four or five - deserved serious considered. He was such a popular figure during his life that it was no surprise that many pray to him after his death".

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Re: The new Saint John Paul - how fucking nuts is this!?

Post by Cunt » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:28 pm

Rum wrote:He was such a popular figure during his life that it was no surprise that many pray to him after his death".
I was going to type something about how since I prayed for increased penis size, and I have gotten fatter, my apparant size has 'smallered up', but then I realized I was ignoring your question.
Rum wrote:how fucking nuts is this!?"
It's not nutty at all compared to the foundation it rests on. I mean, have you SEEN Vatican City?
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Re: The new Saint John Paul - how fucking nuts is this!?

Post by Animavore » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:30 pm

John Paul stood in the way of investigations for child abuse far more than Ratzi and they want to make him a Saint!
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