Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
- Sean Hayden
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Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
What does it all mean? How can an average Joe find out?
A lot of people are saying it's bad. But they acknowledge China is a bad actor and has been for a long time. Still, they say tarrifs aren't the answer. But their evidence for why not is thin.
Some point to the lack of change so far. Can't I just ignore that? I mean how fast are things supposed to change?
Others complain that it's going to hurt US companies. But I'm okay with shrinking profit margins for companies like Apple. They'll just have to adjust. These people and our markets have had unrealistic expectations for a long time, haven't they?
Few if any seem to be offering alternatives.
Finally some just seem to really, really hate the US and anything it does is bad. They can take a number as the saying goes.
So what do you know? Help me understand this stuff. How should we react to China? What is better than tariffs?
A lot of people are saying it's bad. But they acknowledge China is a bad actor and has been for a long time. Still, they say tarrifs aren't the answer. But their evidence for why not is thin.
Some point to the lack of change so far. Can't I just ignore that? I mean how fast are things supposed to change?
Others complain that it's going to hurt US companies. But I'm okay with shrinking profit margins for companies like Apple. They'll just have to adjust. These people and our markets have had unrealistic expectations for a long time, haven't they?
Few if any seem to be offering alternatives.
Finally some just seem to really, really hate the US and anything it does is bad. They can take a number as the saying goes.
So what do you know? Help me understand this stuff. How should we react to China? What is better than tariffs?
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
The existing trade deals were fine. China is never going to follow all the demands from the West. But you can stop them from exporting products that break patents. They will sell them in china.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late
Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...
- pErvinalia
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
Tariffs are going to be particularly bad if there are retaliatory tariffs. That puts prices up across the board and means you sell less. Which means economic growth slows, unemployment grows, etc.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
- Tero
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
And since we no longer make clothing and shoes, pointless to make consumers pay more. Maybe if we manufactured something, we could force a deal! We just make shit we use at home. We have land, so we have excess food. Not a high tech product but of some use in trade war.
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late
Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late
Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...
- laklak
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
Look, they wouldn't have made this cartoon if we didn't have to worry about them. I gotta say, though, that evil habits and licentious opium don't sound that bad, and I'm a Libertarian so I can do greed.
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Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
- Sean Hayden
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
But if it hurts manufacturers in China then they can move it elsewhere.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:57 pmTariffs are going to be particularly bad if there are retaliatory tariffs. That puts prices up across the board and means you sell less. Which means economic growth slows, unemployment grows, etc.
Also, what about our expectations? Is it not reasonable to expect slow downs and job loss? Why assume any solution can maintain the market's insanity?
- Sean Hayden
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
I don't understand why it's pointless for consumers to pay more. Weren't we opposed to the exploitation that has kept prices low till now?Tero wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:04 pmAnd since we no longer make clothing and shoes, pointless to make consumers pay more. Maybe if we manufactured something, we could force a deal! We just make shit we use at home. We have land, so we have excess food. Not a high tech product but of some use in trade war.
Plus, how much of your price is the result of unrealistic expectations for profit?
Maybe shithead CEOs need to take a hit?
Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
The big thing I've always heard is nobody wins, and prices go up, so regular folks get less from their paycheck. One place China really has us over a barrel is prescription drugs. We get most of the ingredients from them. That could hurt a lot of Americans if those prices go up.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
- Sean Hayden
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
That's interesting. Is it an opportunity for the government to step in and provide more support for healthcare? We already can't afford our medicine. Maybe the solution again revolves around expectations and priorities?Joe wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:45 pmThe big thing I've always heard is nobody wins, and prices go up, so regular folks get less from their paycheck. One place China really has us over a barrel is prescription drugs. We get most of the ingredients from them. That could hurt a lot of Americans if those prices go up.
Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
Maybe. Our government could do a lot to help people out with drug costs, but they haven't. It seems like a no-brainer to use it's purchasing power to drive prices down, but one thing I've learned from watching this stuff for decades is that things in Washington are as they are because powerful interests made them that way, and keep them that way.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it's not a slam dunk, where the tariffs are seen as negative by the majority of economists surveyed. When I weigh the risks versus hypothetical benefits, I'd rather not risk bringing in the next economic downturn any sooner than necessary, and keep it as shallow as possible.
Besides, Trump doesn't want tariffs to deter Chinese bad behavior. He wants to eliminate our trade deficit with them, which is an idea that was refuted in mind-numbing detail in 1776, when Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations. It still stands as an effective argument today, but don't rush off to read it.
Here's a pretty humorous TL;DR.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it's not a slam dunk, where the tariffs are seen as negative by the majority of economists surveyed. When I weigh the risks versus hypothetical benefits, I'd rather not risk bringing in the next economic downturn any sooner than necessary, and keep it as shallow as possible.
Besides, Trump doesn't want tariffs to deter Chinese bad behavior. He wants to eliminate our trade deficit with them, which is an idea that was refuted in mind-numbing detail in 1776, when Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations. It still stands as an effective argument today, but don't rush off to read it.
Here's a pretty humorous TL;DR.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
We're talking about rising prices due to tariffs just now, right? Are you suggesting that tariffs improve the lot of poorly paid workers?Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:44 pmI don't understand why it's pointless for consumers to pay more. Weren't we opposed to the exploitation that has kept prices low till now?
Unrealistic expectations for profit do not add a a cent to the price of goods or services. Actual profit does. How much? How long is a piece of string?Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:44 pmPlus, how much of your price is the result of unrealistic expectations for profit?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
- Tero
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
Tariffs are added: consumer pays more. The distributor/importer has to pay the tariff. It does not hurt or help the worker in China, that cost is nothing. The company in China making the shit sees reduced profits due to people buying the cheapest choice of every item rather than the mid price item they used to buy. Your plastic forks and cups will just be wimpier.
Wiki: The United States imposes tariffs (customs duties) on imports of goods. The duty is levied at the time of import and is paid by the importer of record. Customs duties vary by country of origin and product. Goods from many countries are exempt from duty under various trade agreements.
Wiki: The United States imposes tariffs (customs duties) on imports of goods. The duty is levied at the time of import and is paid by the importer of record. Customs duties vary by country of origin and product. Goods from many countries are exempt from duty under various trade agreements.
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late
Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late
Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...
- laklak
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
They're an economic weapon, and like any weapon can be useful when properly used. Whether or not Trump is doing that remains to be seen. Mexico has cut a new deal, and Canada appears likely to do so. No idea what China will do, inscrutable, that lot.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
Who can move what elsewhere? Manufacture is cheap in China. Anywhere else with their level of expertise and infrastructure is going to be way more expensive.Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:37 pmBut if it hurts manufacturers in China then they can move it elsewhere.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:57 pmTariffs are going to be particularly bad if there are retaliatory tariffs. That puts prices up across the board and means you sell less. Which means economic growth slows, unemployment grows, etc.
You don't want to unnecessarily hamstring the economy and increase job losses. Unfortunately the protected industry boat has long sailed (i.e. the WTO rules are now across the board). Any attempt at protectionism is going to be met with retaliation by the relevant trading partners. And that can only lead to higher costs and reduced economic output. Who knows, though, in the long term it might actually work out OK. A nation being more self-sufficient has to have some benefits.Also, what about our expectations? Is it not reasonable to expect slow downs and job loss? Why assume any solution can maintain the market's insanity?
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
- pErvinalia
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Re: Tariffs, Tarrifs, Tarrifs!
Trump might hold the upper hand, as the US imports way more stuff from China than China does from the US. I don't know what else there is to consider in the equation, but it seems to me that China has more to lose than the US.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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