Global Climate Change Science News

[pErvinalia]

To the people who keep saying where is my evidence for not believing in AGW, I have to repeat that nothing has changed. The basics are the same as they always were.
Firstly, the ice core evidence which is accepted and USED by the IPCC and wikipedia etc is the biggest evidence against, for me, and always has been. I've posted it loads of times on this site.

Apart from showing that climate has ALWAYS jumped up and down, and no, Ani, not imperceptibly, but rapidly,

You need to acquaint yourself with the x-axis scale.

it also shows, when analysed in detail, that the CO2 line follows the temperature line up and down, pretty faithfully, but with an 800 year lag. In other words, a rise in temps causes a rise in CO2 roughly 800 years later.
And that relationship has been established many times in peer reviewed studies, and is not denied, but accepted by the IPCC and probably 100 percent of climate alarmists. (at least, the ones who know anything).

This point is evaded, mumbled about, or simply ignored by the industry. But it clearly proves that temperature is driving CO2 levels, not the other way around.

In those cases, perhaps (I say perhaps as I'd have to look closer at it). But the rapid increase in CO2 we are responsible for in the last 100 years plus or minus, could easily be a different dynamic. That's not to say that a sort of balancing cycle won't kick back in if we warm the fuck out of the planet. But the problem is that it might be too late for us by then.

The ONLY way that the alarmists can get around it and try to move on, is with theorised and unproven feedback mechanisms.
But the one obvious feedback mechanism that is definitely NOT in favour, is the elephant in the room.
It's proven that higer temperatures force CO2 levels to rise. IF higher CO2 levels also force TEMPERATURES to rise, then you have the condition of a runaway feedback loop. Both temperatures and CO2 levels would keep forcing each other to rise at a faster and faster rate, until the Earth cooked like Venus.
This has never happened.

How can you discount a natural rebalancing process when that happens?

[pErvinalia]

By golly Mistermack is right after all - and 97% of real scientists are wrong! Whoda thunk it!?!?

Plucky conservative old coot busts open a global conspiracy theory from his armchair!!

[pErvinalia]

Anyway enough of this paranoid McCarthyism. Remember what this thread is supposed to be about.

This is hopefully a stickied continuation from the threads of the same name at Dawkins....

This thread is for Science News Only and not intended for discussions whether or not climate change occurs or whether there are conspiracies, political agendas, etc.

for the moment until dawkins closes here are the links to the threads....all 115 pages of articles from main stream climate and science sources

Most current
http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... =5&t=74571

previous thread

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?p=1739008

Would like to keep the same format without discussion but with full attribution etc pending mod approval

I wonder where macdoc is these days. Does he still post over at the other place?

[Animavore]

Yeah. He does.

[mistermack]

How can you discount a natural rebalancing process when that happens?

When you say natural, you really mean unknown. Right ? Unknown natural rebalancing process.

You can't discount it. And the same thing applies to the GW scare. How can you say it won't be naturally rebalanced?
At least you are admitting that you don't know. Now you're making progress.

If the climate industry were as keen to admit when they don't know, we'd all be better off.

Feedback loops are not as complicated as you seem to think.
There's only one thing that stops it. Removal of one of the forcings.
You move your guitar away from the speaker, and the loop stops.

In the hypothetical climate warming loop, of more heat=more CO2=more heat, there aren't many possibilities.
Either CO2 suddenly stops causing warming, (surely not), or warming suddenly stops causing more CO2 in the atmosphere.

But actually, we KNOW that it wasn't the second, because we have the ice cores. The temperatures stopped rising and began to fall, and 800 years later, the CO2 began to fall.
If you think about those 800 years, you have steeply falling temperatures, and steeply RISING CO2.

Any fool can see that it's not the CO2 that instigates the change.

Of course, the other possibility that gets ignored is that this isn't what really happened. The warming loop never existed as a forcing agent, and temperatures rose and fell for other natural reasons.

[Animavore]

I posted the explanation for this.

[mistermack]

I posted the explanation for this.

You posted links to climate warriors blog sites.

That doesn't count as anything. Let alone an explanation.

All it does is show what dodgy places you get your information from, and explains your obsessiveness.

[Animavore]

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha...

[pErvinalia]

How can you discount a natural rebalancing process when that happens?

When you say natural, you really mean unknown. Right ? Unknown natural rebalancing process.

You can't discount it. And the same thing applies to the GW scare. How can you say it won't be naturally rebalanced?

You can't. But that's not an argument for doing nothing. That's a faith based position.

Feedback loops are not as complicated as you seem to think.
There's only one thing that stops it. Removal of one of the forcings.
You move your guitar away from the speaker, and the loop stops.

The climate is massively more complex than a fucking guitar amp.

In the hypothetical climate warming loop, of more heat=more CO2=more heat, there aren't many possibilities.

How the fuck would you know? You are anti-science. Anything you claim to know can only be a guess.

[mistermack]

You can't. But that's not an argument for doing nothing. That's a faith based position.

The argument for doing nothing, is that you can't perform cartwheels every time someone comes out with a prophesy of doom. Unless you are an idiot, you demand proof. Otherwise, you would never stop performing pointless cartwheels for every doom merchant, just in case one of them was right.

The climate is massively more complex than a fucking guitar amp.

The point was being made about a simple feedback loop. Did you not grasp that?

[pErvinalia]

You can't. But that's not an argument for doing nothing. That's a faith based position.

The argument for doing nothing, is that you can't perform cartwheels every time someone comes out with a prophesy of doom. Unless you are an idiot, you demand proof. Otherwise, you would never stop performing pointless cartwheels for every doom merchant, just in case one of them was right.

Because 97% of people massively more educated than you are "doom merchant".

The climate is massively more complex than a fucking guitar amp.

The point was being made about a simple feedback loop. Did you not grasp that?

Yes, and hence why I pointed out to you that it is ridiculous to try and compare the climate to a feedback loop involving two factors.

[mistermack]

Is that your best tactic?

When you have no answer, just post something deliberately stupid?

There's no need for that.

[pErvinalia]

Pointing out that the climate isn't as simple as a guitar and an amp is stupid? No wonder you have no clue about this stuff.

[Galaxian]

This is hopefully a stickied continuation from the threads of the same name at Dawkins....

This thread is for Science News Only and not intended for discussions whether or not climate change occurs or whether there are conspiracies, political agendas, etc.

for the moment until dawkins closes here are the links to the threads....all 115 pages of articles from main stream climate and science sources
Most current
http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... =5&t=74571
previous thread
http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?p=1739008
Would like to keep the same format without discussion but with full attribution etc pending mod approval

Like its thread on RDF, this one has shown undue obeisance to the rants of deviant ignoramuses... known as "leading climate scientists". There seems to be no appreciation that people in every walk of life will tend to feather their nest, and expand their empire. Getting grants, being paid to travel to international conferences, being rooted by adoring students who are enamored by your profound erudition.

So you invent crap. Reveal only the information that supports your narrative. Hide the rest. Rave like a lunatic with lashings of melodrama. And anyone who challenges your dogma is accused of not being a highly credentialed 'professor', or a malevolent, self-serving politician like Al Gore; the purveyor of Gory half-truths & outright lies.

Dissimulation, such as never mentioning that CO2 is a minor contributor to the greenhouse effect. Far more significant is water vapor & methane, and solar & orbital variations. Note also that the rise in CO2 follows higher temperatures. It does NOT precede it.

Now, Galaxian is far too intelligent to fall for such nonsense, and will not fall for its opposite. Galaxian is well traveled and has lived longer than you can appreciate. But is not a prophet, dogmatically asserting warming or cooling. But seeing that the bogus warming bullshit has been pedelled here for so long, here is the opposite pushed by the same 'experts' right up to the mid 1980's. Watch and be amazed at how easily they reversed their position... to keep the funds & travel & conjugal hanky panky flowing in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq6fDa9JrzQ
Featuring Leonard Nimoy, Columbia University, and leading world climate scientists and sponsored by the US Army and the National Science Foundation, this special on climate was televised in 1978.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HifOuIHhjko Watch in high resolution & full screen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GujLcfdovE8


But, as stated ad nauseam, Galaxian has no axe to grind. I don't care what homo sapiens decide...they'll soon be essentially extinct anyway, and the higher species that replaces them is fairly resistant to ice age or hothouse. Indeed, the Voyager spacecraft prove it so, since they continue to operate well in frigid interstellar space.

So why bother? Because fealty to the truth together with joy are the only things that make life worth living

[pErvinalia]

So you invent crap.

Oh the irony...