No need. It's warming up here, so I'm told.JimC wrote:Whatever the outcome, I predict a horde of desperate Brits emigrating to Oz, both to escape the weather and whatever decision they disagreed with.
Please have a shower and fix your teeth before you head off.
Brian Peacock wrote:Indeed. I'm al for an honest debate on immigration - a rational debate, rooted in facts would be nice - but alas, impossible at the moment. The lies being trotted out regarding immigration at the moment, the impact on jobs, wages, and the economy, crime, the health service, housing, education, are certainly xenophobic and in many cases out-and-out 'send 'em home' racism (nobody is talking about sending Irish, US, or Aus immigrants home for example, just 'foreigners': Eastern European, Middle Eastern, and Indian Sub-continent workers). The interesting point was that my father felt he had to qualify his remarks in that way.JimC wrote:It's not automatically racist of course, and there can be valid reasons for such a stand involving employment and the environment, but a fair number of people wanting less (or zero) immigration have either conscious or unconscious racist motivations.Forty Two wrote:What's racist about opposing immigration beyond a certain level?
This should probably continue in the EU referendum thread.
What the Leavers have managed to do is create a fear and project it into the future - then they've asked people to vote on that projected future fear, to vote on something that doesn't exist, and never will. It's a common tactic in advertising: "Did you know that even though your teeth look and feel fine they could be under attack from acid foods, which will break down the enamel and leave you a soup-drinking toothless old hag? Buy our product!" Lies, half-truths, and misdirection are considered legitimate by the Leavers, because for them the ends very much justifies the means - and the ends are a right-wing government full of people who couldn't get any political purchase under normal circumstances. It's just like lying for Jesus - I may be doing a bad thing now, but its for a better tomorrow so that's OK.Scot Dutchy wrote:What is so sickening to me is the mentality of the Brexiters. They have been lying for months almost years. All their claims have been dismantled but yet to this day they are still repeating them and people are still believing them. What is wrong with the British public has it given up the ability to think or even to add 1+1?
For once and for all read the true facts not Brexit myths.Crumple wrote:The country will be hugely better off after the Brexit. It shows how much we were putting in that there is this last minute panic from Europe. All that money can now be spent on the NHS, Police and Armed Forces....must be billions.
The question: Simon asks BBC Radio 4's PM programme "I notice from my tax summary this year that my personal contribution to the EU was £54 last year. Does this go towards the so-called £350m per week we send to the EU so often quoted by Brexit? Is there another pot we contribute from? If you earn less do you pay less? £54 does not sound a huge amount to me, £1 per week."
The answer: The first thing to be aware of is the £350m a week figure includes the rebate, money we never actually send to the EU. Of the remaining £276m a week which we send to the EU, we receive a certain percentage back in subsidies and to fund regional projects. When you take into account everything we receive, our contribution to the EU is £161m a week.
........
0.6% of our public spending goes to the EU so your tax summary will give a figure representing your personal contribution to the EU - that is 0.6% of your total tax bill. Everyone's tax summary will show the same percentages but the actual figure will of course depend on how much you earn and how much tax you pay - if you earn more, the figure will be higher. So, for example, if you have an annual salary of £26,000 and you pay £5,365 in tax, 0.6% of this or £32 will go to the EU budget.
They use the old "repeat negative statement even though it is a lie" method. A typical example is the 350 million a week or Gove's "why father's business folded". It does not matter if it is a total lie it is said and damage done.Brian Peacock wrote:What the Leavers have managed to do is create a fear and project it into the future - then they've asked people to vote on that projected future fear, to vote on something that doesn't exist, and never will. It's a common tactic in advertising: "Did you know that even though your teeth look and feel fine they could be under attack from acid foods, which will break down the enamel and leave you a soup-drinking toothless old hag? Buy our product!" Lies, half-truths, and misdirection are considered legitimate by the Leavers, because for them the ends very much justifies the means - and the ends are a right-wing government full of people who couldn't get any political purchase under normal circumstances. It's just like lying for Jesus - I may be doing a bad thing now, but its for a better tomorrow so that's OK.
I see Gove's dad has told the press that his business didn't fold due to the EU fisheries policy, contrary to what his lad has been spraying around for the last four months or so. Gove is now in the position of having to publicly debunk his own father. That's going to make Christmas in the Gove household a bit tense eh?
what do you expect of a country where the best selling paper is the Sun?Scot Dutchy wrote:What is so sickening to me is the mentality of the Brexiters. They have been lying for months almost years. All their claims have been dismantled but yet to this day they are still repeating them and people are still believing them. What is wrong with the British public has it given up the ability to think or even to add 1+1?
I know!!!Svartalf wrote:what do you expect of a country where the best selling paper is the Sun?Scot Dutchy wrote:What is so sickening to me is the mentality of the Brexiters. They have been lying for months almost years. All their claims have been dismantled but yet to this day they are still repeating them and people are still believing them. What is wrong with the British public has it given up the ability to think or even to add 1+1?
Terrible 
On the left: an actual Nazi propaganda film On the right: Nigel Farage, today
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/743408416245297152
The Guardian view on Turkey and Europe: separating facts from fiction
Editorial
Turkey’s accession to the European club may be a promise made in 1963, but there is no prospect of it ever happening – despite what Brexiters claim
It is now more than 50 years since Turkey was promised membership of the European club, and despite some cynical scaremongering in the UK during the EU referendum debate – with fears stoked that a country of 79 million might suddenly gain freedom of movement for its citizens across Europe – there is simply no sign that the old accession promise of 1963 will be upheld. When looking at relations between Turkey and Europe, it is important to take the long view – just as it is important to look at facts, and not let irrational passions drown out reason. Simply put: no one in Europe is ready to let Turkey in – now, or in the foreseeable future. Claiming otherwise is either ignorant, or deliberately misleading.
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