Attacks on New Year's Eve: Cologne is shocked

[pErvinalia]

Via the UN convention (which you clearly haven't read) a "safe" country is considered a signatory to the convention. Which is entirely fair enough. And Turkey is a signatory, so if they pass through Turkey they aren't really meeting the spirit of the convention. But where are these current refugees coming from? Turkey, or directly from Syria?

[mistermack]

Via the UN convention (which you clearly haven't read) a "safe" country is considered a signatory to the convention. Which is entirely fair enough. And Turkey is a signatory, so if they pass through Turkey they aren't really meeting the spirit of the convention. But where are these current refugees coming from? Turkey, or directly from Syria?

Turkey.

[pErvinalia]

In that case, they aren't really following the spirit of the convention. But you've also got to consider the numbers. Turkey should be given heaps of assistance to cater for the refugees. What are the numbers who came to Europe? Something like a couple of hundred thousand? You can't just ship a couple of hundred thousand people back. That horse has already bolted.

In any case, them skipping through Turkey doesn't all of a sudden make them non-refugees. Interestingly, if you look at the convention, having your home bombed to shit isn't actually a criteria for refugee status. Maybe there's a provision there somewhere that I've missed.

[NineBerry]

Not all these Syrian refugees come via Turkey. Many come via Greece or Italy, bypassing Turkey by crossing the Mediterranean. That is the more dangerous route. They risk death exactly because they fear that they would be refused in Europe when coming from Turkey. And they do that because the situation for refugees in Turkey is fucked up. And if you watch the News, you will see that Turkey isn't a very stable country, either. Do you expect Kurds from Iraq or Syria to flee to Turkey where the government is currently fighting a civil war against its Kurdish population?

In the Wikipedia quote, the second red part does not refer to the first red part. The point Roman I deals with is what countries refugees pass through while Roman II deals with countries they originally come from. Roman I (the part about passing through a safe third country) is the regulation called "Dublin", it is a European law with some European non-EU-countries like Switzerland and Norway being part of it via treaty. "Safe Countries" according to this are specifically the members of that treaty. (So all EU countries and Switzerland, Norway and some others). In Germany, last year a court had ruled that Hungary cannot be considered a safe third country although it is a member of the EU because it does not guarantee refugee rights according to the European Convention on Human Rights.

So, yes, legally, Germany would not have to take any Syrian refugees at all because it is nearly impossible for a Syrian refugee to reach Germany without passing through another EU member state.

However, this Dublin-System is totally fucked up, as I had explained before. It puts all the burden of helping refugees on the countries at the south eastern border of the EU without giving anything to them in return. It is a bully treaty pressured on the poorer Southern and Eastern EU countries by the richer central, western and northern countries. It was absolutely clear from the outset that it would not work when there is a large number of refugees at some time. That time is now.

Insisting on dealing with the issue based on Dublin (what some countries, e.g. France and the UK and many Eastern ones do) would be a death sentence for Greece and Italy.

[laklak]

Y'all Canadians best set up some camps, because whoever wins next November you'll have a mass migration from the South. If the Dems win you should stock up of Cheetos and Slim Jims, if the GOP wins you'll need espresso and kale chips.

[pErvinalia]

[pErvinalia]

I could understand repubs fleeing (not that it would do any good fleeing to progressive Canada) if Sanders won, but Hillary? She's a neoliberal. She's centre right like her hubby.

[laklak]

She'll be in jail. We've certainly had some crooks in the Presidency, but the Oval Office has never actually been in a Federal prison. First time for everything, I suppose.

[pErvinalia]

Why will she be in jail? The email thing?

[laklak]

Yeah, FBI has over 100 agents on it now. This is the sort of thing that they take rather seriously. It remains to be seen whether or not Slick Willy's Teflon coating is an organic part of him or something more like a raincoat he can lend her.

[pErvinalia]

I hope they nail her so The Bern gets the nod. Bern vs The Donald. I'd watch that.

[laklak]

I'd rather see Bernie against Rand Paul. Trump is a fucking circus sideshow, at least Sanders and Paul would be a clear choice between political philosophies.

Or just run Bozo the Clown against Lassie.

[pErvinalia]

Your whole system is a circus. Trump deserves centre stage!