rEvolutionist wrote:laklak wrote:rEvolutionist wrote:
It's not a matter of kowtowing to them or exterminating everyone. That's a false dichotomy. Just don't enact policies that will clearly create more terrorists. Best example of that is Iraq.
Again I agree. But what policies?
Don't invade Iraq.
Had to. Commitment to allies required it and then Saddam made it necessary to revisit the issue.
Don't invade Syria.
I'm good with that. We should just use stand-off weapons to kill the Islamic radicals...and anybody else who can't behave themselves like civilized persons.
Don't bomb weddings.
Shit happens. Clean up your own terrorist mess and we won't have to do it for you.
Don't blow up people just because they are in the vicinity of a terrorist.
Don't be in the vicinity of terrorists. Better yet, kill them yourselves so we don't have to.
Under a policy like that you might not kill as many terrorists, but you will be generating far less new terrorists.
That's "far fewer."
The goal is LESS overall terrorists, not MORE dead current ones.
No, the goal is to make all terrorists dead. Either the people who live with them can do it or we will do it for them, and any collateral damage that occurs happens because they failed to take action themselves. Unfortunate, but necessary.
And your "solution" is about as juvenile and ill-considered as any I've seen. It amounts to "don't do anything because somebody innocent might get hurt," which doesn't solve anything at all, it makes it worse.
His contention is (and I agree with him) that the root causes of Islamic terrorism have nothing at all to do with Israel or the U.S. or any policy by any Western country in the last two centuries. It is a part and parcel of Islam.
He's exactly right. This problem has been with us since 866, when that asswipe Mohammed decided to fuck the world up for the next several thousand years with his megalomaniacal pretensions.
Ali Rivzi says
That is before al Qaeda and the Taliban, before the creation of Israel or the Arab-Israeli conflict, before Khomeini, before Saudi Arabia, before drones, before most Americans even knew what jihad or Islam was, and, most importantly, well before the United States had engaged in a single military incursion overseas or even had an established foreign policy.
He's right. Some dipshit living in a cave convinced a bunch of other dipshits that he had God's ear and it's been downhill ever since. So what? That was then, this is now. Right now we just have to kill the radicals until there aren't any more.
You are hardly going to have time for enlightnment and secularism when drones are raining death all around you and your family.
I'd think that having that happen because you don't abjure violence and act to suppress those of your own religion who misuse your religion as a justification for mindless violence would cause a great and immediate enlightenment: Stop supporting Islamic violence and imperialism and kill those who perpetrate it.
This is my point. It makes no difference what policies we adopt. We could withdraw all U.S. troops from every country in the Mideast, drop all support for Israel, allow Iran to develop nukes, and put ourselves back into pre-WW I isolationism and it would make no difference, they're still going to come after us until we submit to Islam.
But this is the false dichotomy again. It's not a matter of killing everyone or alternatively doing absolutely nothing. It's about taking the old testament conservative moralising out of the equation from our side and start thinking smart instead of moralistically.
Huh? Dude, they want to kill us or enslave us. All of us. You and I and everyone else who is not a Muslim. There's no moralizing involved. It's kill or be enslaved, it's just that simple.
A South African guy I worked with for several years converted to Islam, basically because he could have 4 wives, treat them like shit and still be a respected member of the community. Hell, more than respected, honored. What he liked about it was whatever he told his wife to do she'd have to do, because "it's in the book". That's their grounding belief - it's in the fucking book.
It's also in the Christian book. It's just that the Pope and the other bloke have moderated that shit.
Right, and the radical Muslims refuse to moderate their shit, so we have to moderate them.
I'm not saying that the vast majority of muslims aren't peaceful people who want nothing to do with terrorism and just want to live their lives without interference. Just like the vast majority of Christians. However, I certainly blame Christianity for abortion clinic bombings, so I'd be less than honest not to blame Islam for the jihadis.
I've got no problem with blaming Islam. I do it all the time on my facebook feed (to the chagrin of some of my lefty mates). But collective punishment will never solve anything. Particularly in the case where you involve beliefs about an awesome afterlife.
Until "peaceful" Islam takes on "radical Islam" and destroys it, I'm operating under the principle that if it looks like a duck, and it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
"Moderate Islam" is free to prove to me they aren't ducks at any time, but they'd damned well better get with the program because I'm going duck hunting.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
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