NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

[Clinton Huxley]

With a fine-mesh fishing net, you'll throw back the small-fry when times are good but when you get hungry....

[Coito ergo sum]

What does it matter if they have your porn history, and your dirty email or SMS text exchanges you had with the spouse of a friend?

When you're applying for a government job, they'll know it. When you're running for local office, you're opponent who has friends in different agencies may know it. When you're trying to settle a financial or regulatory issue with a government agency, they may let you know that they know about it...and remind you how in this day and age it's easy for information to slip out without anyone knowing....of course, if you just agree to pay the fine or the fee or comply, without question, we could put this matter behind us....

[Tero]

And you have evidence they do this?

[Tero]

Only, the program only analyzes for terrorism and security items. That is what they would share. It's not going to share you secret cookie recipe or porn.

This SHARING was with the foreign governments. Most often such info gets shared when the foreign government ask for specific persons.

[pErvinalia]

And you have evidence they do this?

The point is that it could easily happen. That's why we put limits on state power.

[Tero]

So Obama saved all your e mails and will come and take all your guns away so he can establish socialism, like in the UK?

And by hanging on to 100 million guns the Patriots (a well organized militia) will prevent this?

[Sean Hayden]

Paranoia is not an argument.

I think you can either disagree with their actions on principle or you can disagree with how/what they collected.

I don't think what they collected was inappropriate and they don't seem to have broken any laws in collecting it. So it would seem to be down to principle. Apparently some people would have us believe it is never appropriate to violate another's privacy, or that it is always inappropriate or suspicious for certain individuals or organizations to do so, or to do so on a particular scale, all irrespective of context --in principle it is wrong.

But I'm inclined to just ignore this (ASSUMING NO OTHER ARGUMENT IS PROVIDED) because it is unlikely that these people will be able to apply their objection with any consistency. Even if they want to they will be seen to be so impractical as to be nutty actually. Also, It will be very difficult to determine whether or not they just want it to apply in this instance so they can use our fears to put us off their own pet hates e.g. authority, or a particular party, vs demonstrating an act has occurred which in all situations (whatever party is in power) will always violate a general principle.

[pErvinalia]

So Obama saved all your e mails and will come and take all your guns away so he can establish socialism, like in the UK?

And by hanging on to 100 million guns the Patriots (a well organized militia) will prevent this?

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So, we don't have to stop doing drug deals via cell phone then?

[Coito ergo sum]

And you have evidence they do this?

LOL -- IRS scandal -- power of IRS used to target conservative groups.

AP scandal - a blanket seizure of phone records of journalists.

Fox News journalist called an "unindicted coconspirator" and a warrant issued against him AND HIS PARENTS.

I also know that government personnel are no more honorable in these matters than people in the private sector. Do you doubt that people in the private sector would do this from time to time?

[Coito ergo sum]

Only, the program only analyzes for terrorism and security items. That is what they would share. It's not going to share you secret cookie recipe or porn.

Most often such info gets shared when the foreign government ask for specific persons.

snip -- Do you have evidence of this?

[Tero]

Well rEv, since you have no porn and no inventory of guns in your e mails that Obama stole, why worry?

Coito: we don't know shit. This is spy stuff. Read spy novels. It is obvious that MI 6 is not after my secret cookie recipies.

And
AP scandal - a blanket seizure of phone records of journalists.

They were not out to discredit journalists. They were after the Gubment leak. They can spy on employees with security clearsnce that are misusing it.

[Coito ergo sum]

And you have evidence they do this?

The point is that it could easily happen. That's why we put limits on state power.

Bingo.

Give that man a cheroot.

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, since you have no porn and no inventory of guns in your e mails that Obama stole, why worry?

1. I'm not just worried about me.
2. The issue is not about individual people having to worry or not having to worry, it's about the integrity of the system as a whole, the fairness of the system as a whole, and limits on government power - we are not a police state; I would like to keep it that way.
3. I don't think a person with an inventory of guns in their emails should have to "worry", except to the same extent that anyone else who is reasonably suspected of having committed a crime or having possession of evidence of a crime would have to "worry."
4. I don't think people with porn on their computers should have to "worry", except to the same extent as specified in #3 above.
5. This is not about Obama. This is about who comes after Obama.

[Tero]

Well you got 3 years to shut down NSA domestic activities. Good luck.