Global Climate Change Science News

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by aufbahrung » Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:07 am

Climate change mitigation means populations radical reduction, it's the only way to be sure going forwards. You can talk the talk. Can you walk the walk?
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:42 am

You first.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Wed Apr 12, 2023 7:01 am

The population is already on the way down by 2060 and that comes with its own set of problems.
There is no way to change the drive to upward mobility in the second world.
The first world built their wealth on cheap fossil fuel, time to pay the piper.

The third world where the population growth is ( Africa and India ) contribute zilch to AGW.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:02 am

macdoc wrote:This is climate science?
The context of this thread has developed over time. It's now the venue where we discuss any and all climate related stuff. You know this coz you've been a regular contributor to those discussions (see the post above this one). So why do you think you are questioning it now in relation to that article?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:09 am

aufbahrung wrote:Climate change mitigation means populations radical reduction, it's the only way to be sure going forwards. You can talk the talk. Can you walk the walk?
If that were true then there's overwhelming evidence that the way to reduce the birth rate is to create democratic systems that meet people's educational, health and economic needs - raising the standard of living of the poor, providing high value education accessible by the broadest demographic, securing human rights for adults and children, and giving women and girls control over their reproductive health.

However, it's not true that so-called 'people pressure' is driving Global Heating, and as macdoc pointed out the most populous regions are both the ones that have contributed the least to Climate Change and the ones that are the most impacted by it.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by rainbow » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:29 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:07 am
Climate change mitigation means populations radical reduction, it's the only way to be sure going forwards. You can talk the talk. Can you walk the walk?
Drivel.

The poorest half of the world contribute about 5% of the CO2 emissions.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by aufbahrung » Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:54 am

Probably necessary the poorest 5% are curtailed from achieving a 'standard of consumption' similar to the folk at the top of the pile. This being a train in motion and everything. Your static take on the statistics of the hour is noted, converted to a paper plane, flown into a nearby rubbish bin...
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by rainbow » Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:18 pm

aufbahrung wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:54 am
Probably necessary the poorest 5% are curtailed from achieving a 'standard of consumption' similar to the folk at the top of the pile. This being a train in motion and everything. Your static take on the statistics of the hour is noted, converted to a paper plane, flown into a nearby rubbish bin...
...and the illiterate. Get rid of them as well.

Do you not understand what I wrote?

'poorest half' is 50% not 5%, where did you get your degree in Stats?
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by aufbahrung » Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:24 pm

Poverty is a subjective term. Your playing with words and adding numbers in to give the impression of a reasonable actor in the debate
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:30 pm

The burden of decarbonization is on here ...
The members of the G20 are: Argentina, Brazil Australia, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Türkiye, the United Kingdom, the United States, and the European Union.
With the larger effort required of those in bold.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by aufbahrung » Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:35 pm

Think we need to preserve advanced civilization but reduce the human population on a golden ticket basis that doesn't discriminate against fragile advanced forms of civilization. The danger with the popular approach is that you could end up with a year zero pol pot solution doing the rounds for a century or so, leaving a scorched humanity worse than climate change would bring. A better approach is a socio-economic catastrophe that culls the human species too fast to leave the survivors any choice but to rebuild - without the numbers to do the eco-sphere any damage, before the singularity is reached and all bets are off cos of grey goo arriving on the scene.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:41 pm

aufbahrung wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:54 am
Probably necessary the poorest 5% are curtailed from achieving a 'standard of consumption' similar to the folk at the top of the pile. This being a train in motion and everything. Your static take on the statistics of the hour is noted, converted to a paper plane, flown into a nearby rubbish bin...
what's 'standard consumption'? How can there be a normative level of consumption while 1 in 3 Americans weighs as much as the the other two combined?
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:56 pm

aufbahrung wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:35 pm
Think we need to preserve advanced civilization but reduce the human population on a golden ticket basis that doesn't discriminate against fragile advanced forms of civilization. The danger with the popular approach is that you could end up with a year zero pol pot solution doing the rounds for a century or so, leaving a scorched humanity worse than climate change would bring. A better approach is a socio-economic catastrophe that culls the human species too fast to leave the survivors any choice but to rebuild - without the numbers to do the eco-sphere any damage, before the singularity is reached and all bets are off cos of grey goo arriving on the scene.
I like the lottery idea - it seems intuitively fair in its randomness and applicability to everyone equally. But again, isn't this just assuming that people pressure is driving Global Heating and the systems and practises that facilitate it? I mean, sure, if things were static and we reduced the population we'd reduce the amount of resources we need and reduce the rate at which we'd be degrading ecologies to acquire them - but the paradigm of perpetual 3% GDP growth would still be in play, the poor, oppressed and sick of the world would still be poor, oppressed and sick, and exploitation and other 'cost efficiencies' would still drive asset wealth inflation for the wealthy, because all that is built into those systems and practises. You might counter by saying that lower resource extraction and use would give ecologies a chance to fight back &/or re-establish, but your lottery would still disproportionately impact the poorer half of the population more than the richest half, particularly where child mortality rates are higher and infectious and chronic disease control is lower, and there's no guarantee that 'the market' will play ball now it's been gifted the power to set it own rules.

This is the paradox of Malthusianism, it's always argued for on the grounds of its utilitarian benefit, but the poorest always carry the more significant burden for the material benefit of the wealthiest.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by aufbahrung » Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:46 pm

silly adding linear graphs to a non-linear box of black swans such is human civilization...that's another part of the debate missing from the talking heads
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:02 pm

Do non sequiturs taste sweet or sour?
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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