Global Climate Change Science News

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:50 pm

Airy fairy shite ...human population is already curbing itself.
Image
Despite the hand wringing there are not a lot of us on a large planet.
Image
That's all current humans piled in a small bit of the Grand Canyon.

Even tho we have an outsize impact there is still rewilding going on in many areas as rural areas decline and humans move toward arcologies. Tokyo has the same population as Canada.
If we can meet the goal of 50% of the oceans and land area preserved from non- renewable exploitation

Preserving the biome is a much more important goal than reducing human populations tho the two are related as the biomes in the poor nations are very much under pressure.

Interesting times. :coffee:
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Tue Apr 18, 2023 1:06 pm

Some good news ....the coral reef bunkers...
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -with-life
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:40 am

Good article
The climate crisis and biodiversity crisis can't be approached as two separate things
New review study released in the journal Science offers new solutions for combating climate change and biodiversity loss
Date: April 20, 2023 Source:
Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research

Summary:
Anthropogenic climate change has, together with the intensive use and destruction of natural ecosystems through agriculture, fishing and industry, sparked an unprecedented loss of biodiversity that continues to worsen. In this regard, the climate crisis and biodiversity crisis are often viewed as two separate catastrophes. An international team of researchers calls for adopting a new perspective.
more
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 141621.htm
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 22, 2023 7:17 am

Brian: The climate crisis, biodiversity crisis, and capitalism crisis can't be approached as three separate things.

macdoc: Lots of big words

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:24 am

What capitalism crisis ? :bored:
Don't conflate misbehaving humans with an economic system.
Acting in an unsustainable manner be it personal, institutional or corporate is a choice. :coffee:

•••

Big words ??
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:34 am


macdoc wrote:What capitalism crisis ?
Don't, you'll get him started!

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:59 am

Lol. Hashtag not all capitalists. Hashtag capitalist's lives matter.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:32 am

“I THINK WE ARE IN CANARY-IN-A-COAL MINE TERRITORY.” —
A warmer planet, less nutritious plants and… fewer grasshoppers?
Higher levels of carbon dioxide are changing micronutrients in grasses, trees, and kelp.

AMBER DANCE, KNOWABLE MAGAZINE - 4/22/2023, 10:22 PM
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04 ... sshoppers/
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:42 am

Yeah, we are the canaries in the coal mine, but the people in charge of mining operations can always find more canaries if they need them - and it's not like they actually visit the coal face is it?

If facts made a difference then we wouldn't be in the position we are today. What do they say about trying the same thing over-and-over and expecting different results?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by macdoc » Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:25 pm

Except we don't ....care to compare say medicine now and in 1890 ? We do get better results. Evidence based decision making.
You are still gnashing your teeth and hand wringing rather than enjoying the progress made and endeavouring to go further.
First world does not send kids to sweep chimneys anymore and hands are washed.
Perhaps some aniline dyed sackcloth would improve your outlook.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:27 pm

You been reading Stephen Pinker again?

And I'm bored with you constantly misrepresenting my views as fundamentally anti-science and anti-progress. It's becoming quite laughable now actually.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by JimC » Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:43 pm

I too see at least a certain amount of hope in developing technologies to combat global warming in a variety of ways, and even a glimmer of hope from the fact that a significant proportion of capitalist organisations see investment in renewables as financially attractive.

However, I'm by no means certain that will be enough by itself, and I think we need some far-reaching political changes to really tackle the issue properly.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:45 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:43 pm
I too see at least a certain amount of hope in developing technologies to combat global warming in a variety of ways, and even a glimmer of hope from the fact that a significant proportion of capitalist organisations see investment in renewables as financially attractive.

However, I'm by no means certain that will be enough by itself, and I think we need some far-reaching political changes to really tackle the issue properly.
That's where I'm at. Talking about the facts of climate change and global heating is one thing, and it's important to know the extent of the crisis, but the torrent of 'bad news' stories doesn't seem to be promoting the corollary that the facts cumulatively represent an existential threat to complex adaptive systems like ecologies and human bodies - nor do they seem to galvanising people into making the rapid changes needed.

Signatories to Paris agreed to cut CO2 emissions by 50% by 2030, to cut them again by 50% by 2040, and by another 50% by 2050, while transitioning the energy economy from fossil to renewable sources - those cuts are negotiated and conservative, and were signed up to well before the 2021 and 2022 IPCC reports. Ahead of COP26 the EU announced it intended to cut emissions by 55% by 2030, but compared to 1990 levels not current levels, and in the meantime the EU emitted more GHG in 2022 than at any time in history. We saw 90,000 people on the streets of the UK capital last weekend, co-ordinated by over 200 environmental and campaigning groups whose combined membership represents millions of people, all calling for rapid action on cliamte change. And the main story across the media was about the disruption to the lives of Londoners, with several high-ranking government ministers popping up on every outlet to say that they intend to bring in even stricter laws to prevent protests and the inconvenience and disruption it causes to ordinary people's lives. The irony is lost on most - and that's also a fact.

My view is that the system, the status quo, the business as usual model, capitalism, or whatever you want to call it, has evolved to a place where it is now incapable of making the rapid changes needed, changes that can actually put us in a place where we can actually get the benefit of new science and novel technology as we create resilient and just societies that can sustain themselves as they develop. And for that I'm cast as a Luddite and a reflexive hand-wringing, penitent - which is not only a mischaracterisation of my views, but in the latter case a misapplication of terms t'boot.

So yeah, please keep posting stories about us being the canaries in the coal mine etc macdoc; I actually find them motivating. But each one only emphasises that an awareness of the facts doesn't change anything, that it doesn't change the primary fact that business as usual has added more CO2 to the atmosphere in 2022 than any time before, and/or that business as usual and governments across the board are heavily weighting their bets in favour of inaction.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by JimC » Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:00 pm

Brian, I still have some doubts about the potential downside to deliberate, sustained disruption to the movement of ordinary people in major cities by climate change protestors. Now, I'm not talking about the relatively brief disruption caused by a large protest march wending its way through a city. I am talking about what XR people did occasionally in Melbourne, deliberately blocking major intersections for as long as possible, not the incidental delays caused by a protest march. I think that it can turn a lot of people against the protestors. Sure, conservative media and politicians will try to stir that feeling up even more, but to my mind, it can be a counter-productive process. More targeted disruption like blockading the offices of fossil fuel companies for example is of course a different matter.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:30 pm

Jim. I think there's room for all kinds of protest action. Ultimately the goal is to get our traditional systems of authority and governance to take note, and then to take the kind of action that only they can take.

In 2019 after Greta, the school strikes and the April Rebellion the UK govt were caught off guard by the amount of public support there was for climate action - so much so that even under a Tory govt the UK was the first Western power to declare a climate emergency. But they've had time to plan better since, and now laws on protests have been changed, and are due to change again, pro-environment views have been consistently painted as extremists, and even teachers are now legally obliged to refer young people who express 'strident, radical, or anti-capitalist' ideas to the system which monitors things like radical Islam and violent far-right groups. Despite its Paris commitments the UK government has opened bidding on over 100 new oil and gas exploration licence for the North Sea field - so they're not only slamming the people's representation door shut in our faces, they're also wedging the fossil fuel door open.

When people throw soup at a Van Gogh or glue themselves to doors of an oil company HQ, or disrupt a sporting event, or block traffic for half a day, a lot of people are turned off. But by contrast the kindly gent in the cardigan distributing leaflets and chatting outside the garden centre seems like a right sweetie. The message is the same, they just speak to and for different people in different ways.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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