Mathematics Fries My Brains

Which is best?

Poll ended at Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:09 am

Pure Mathematics
3
38%
Cheesy Mathematics
2
25%
Bacony Mathematics
0
No votes
Sod Mathematics
1
13%
Pub
2
25%
 
Total votes: 8

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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:03 pm

Fraudulent voter switching...

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:19 am

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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:29 am

Swiss researchers calculate pi to new record of 62.8tn figures.


3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609433057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548074462379962749567351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440656643086021394946395224737190702179860943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132000568127145263560827785771342757789609173637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998372978049951059731732816096318595024459455346908302642522308253344685035261931188171010003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303598253490428755468731159562863882353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198938095257201065485863278865936153381827968230301952035301852968995773622599413891249721775283479131515574857242454150695950829533116861727855889075098381754637464939319255060400927701671139009848824012858361603563707660104710181942955596198946767837449448255379774726847104047534646208046684259069491293313677028989152104752162056966024058038150193511253382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796782354781636009341721641219924586315030286182974555706749838505494588586926995690927210797509302955321165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566369807426542527862551818417574672890977772793800081647060016145249192173217214772350141441973568548161361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334547762416862518983569485562099219222184272550254256887671790494601653466804988627232791786085784383827967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117392984896084128488626945604241965285022210661186306744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917287467764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099465764078951269468398352595709825822620522489407726719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203496252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515709858387410597885959772975498930161753928468138268683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680845987273644695848653836736222626099124608051243884390451244136549762780797715691435997700129616089441694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506016842739452267467678895252138522549954666727823986456596116354886230577456498035593634568174324112515076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867228748940560101503308617928680920874760917824938589009714909675985261365549781893129784821682998948722658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364542858444795265867821051141354735739523113427166102135969536231442952484937187110145765403590279934403742007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713868751943506430218453191048481005370614680674919278191197939952061419663428754440643745123718192179998391015919561814675142691239748940907186494231961567945208095146550225231603881930142093762137855956638937787083039069792077346722182562599661501421503068038447734549202605414665925201497442850732518666002132434088190710486331734649651453905796268561005508106658796998163574736384052571459102897064140110971206280439039759515677157700420337869936007230558763176359421873125147120532928191826186125867321579198414848829164470609575270695722091756711672291098169091528017350671274858322287183520935396572512108357915136988209144421006751033467110314126711136990865851639831501970165151168517143765761835155650884909989859982387345528331635507647918535893226185489632132933089857064204675259070915481416549859461637180270981994309924488957571282890592323326097299712084433573265489382391193259746366730583604142813883032038249037589852437441702913276561809377344403070746921120191302033038019762110110044929321516084244485963766983895228684783123552658213144957685726243344189303968642624341077322697802807318915441101044682325271620105265227211166039666557309254711055785376346682065310989652691862056476931257058635662018558100729360659876486117910453348850346113657686753249441668039626579787718556084552965412665408530614344431858676975145661406800700237877659134401712749470420562230538994561314071127000407854733269939081454664645880797270826683063432858785698305235808933065757406795457163775254202114955761581400250126228594130216471550979259230990796547376125517656751357517829666454779174501129961489030463994713296210734043751895735961458901938971311179042978285647503203198691514028708085990480109412147221317947647772622414254854540332157185306142288137585043063321751829798662237172159160771669254748738986654949450114654062843366393790039769265672146385306736096571209180763832716641627488880078692560290228472104031721186082041900042296617119637792133757511495950156604963186294726547364252308177036751590673502350728354056704038674351362222477158915049530984448933309634087807693259939780541934144737744184263129860809988868741326047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7... (+ 6.279999999¹³ more digits)
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by JimC » Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:51 am

When they go deeper still, they will find that the digits are a coded message left by the alien intelligences who created our universe for their amusement...
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by aufbahrung » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:45 am

It's a cultural construct. Not even about patterns. How to agree or disagree. Nothing beyond.
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by JimC » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:38 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:45 am
It's a cultural construct. Not even about patterns. How to agree or disagree. Nothing beyond.
Nonsense. The patterns we can extract by logic are a fundamental part of reality, which discerning minds can uncover, little by little. Aspects of the way this is done and then communicated are influenced by cultural trends within the societies that mathematicians operate within, but the patterns themselves represent deep and fundamental truths.
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:50 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:45 am
It's a cultural construct. Not even about patterns. How to agree or disagree. Nothing beyond.
Yes, Mathematics is a cultural construct, one constructed by societies since the dawn of humanity. But if you drag a stick through the stand as you turn around on the spot what do you have when you get back to where you started? How long is the line you've drawn and what is the area within its boundary? Imagine some aliens that use a completely different set of mathematical concepts and constructs. If they are to successfully determine the circumference or area of a circle they will have arrived at some form of PI within their framework. PI is a very real number, as well as being a very irrational one.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by aufbahrung » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:02 am

Everybody dies. No proof that these laws of mathematics are more than temporary constructs of a temporary Boltzmann brain
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by NineBerry » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:58 am

JimC wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:51 am
When they go deeper still, they will find that the digits are a coded message left by the alien intelligences who created our universe for their amusement...
We won't find the coded message because we don't know how many fingers the Aliens have

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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:29 am

aufbahrung wrote:Everybody dies. No proof that these laws of mathematics are more than temporary constructs of a temporary Boltzmann brain
You're relying on the absurd, again, to ignore the issue, again. There is a universe of things and stuff that exists beyond you and regardless of your own existence.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by JimC » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:38 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:50 am
aufbahrung wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:45 am
It's a cultural construct. Not even about patterns. How to agree or disagree. Nothing beyond.
Yes, Mathematics is a cultural construct, one constructed by societies since the dawn of humanity. But if you drag a stick through the stand as you turn around on the spot what do you have when you get back to where you started? How long is the line you've drawn and what is the area within its boundary? Imagine some aliens that use a completely different set of mathematical concepts and constructs. If they are to successfully determine the circumference or area of a circle they will have arrived at some form of PI within their framework. PI is a very real number, as well as being a very irrational one.
I think that the bald statement "Mathematics is a cultural construct" is potentially misleading (which I know you addressed later in your posts). Some (usually sociologists, with their own tribal delusions...) use that to make the body of mathematical knowledge no different to, say, the social rules on marriage in a given society, that is, purely subjective and with no universal application. There are fundamental logical truths in established mathematical knowledge which are independent of any human cultural differences, or, as you indicated, variations in sentient organism cultures.

The surface details of the process of mathematical labour is, naturally, embedded in the culture of a given mathematician, and is of some interest in itself, but the patterns that emerge are not contingent on any specific culture.
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:52 am

Indeed. A body has mass, and the speed of light in a vacuum is constant regardless of the units you measure that in, and all the axioms of mathematics can be, and have so far been, logically derived from the fundamental root of singular identity: x = x.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by aufbahrung » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:57 am

Need these axioms to bootstrap everything into orbit. Tells you nothing about the planet of origin or even whether your set of equations are really true. The big lie could stretch across the universe. And outside this simulation the constants might be different, the universe more interesting...
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:04 am

Define 'true'.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Mathematics Fries My Brains

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:09 pm

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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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