No more babies

PsychoSerenity
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Re: No more babies

Post by PsychoSerenity » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:38 pm

Alan B wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:22 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:34 pm
Rosling also demonstrated that in societies where economies remain well regulated and stable, where democratic processes and institutions are robust, where there is universal access to education and health care and a functioning social safety net, then population growth tends towards a below than 1:1 ratio.
Yes. But I would suspect, (I'm guessing here), that the countries that meet those conditions are in the minority. :dunno: (link?)

Even so, if every country met those conditions, it would take an awful long time to reduce the world population to a level of equilibrium that would not cause damage to the biosphere. Do we actually have that amount of time before we irreversibly mess things up ?
What do you propose instead?
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Alan B
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Re: No more babies

Post by Alan B » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:50 pm

I don't propose anything. I'm just making what I feel to be a valid observation. I stand to be corrected if you have any more info.

But, of course, there's always Soylent Green... :whistle:
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Re: No more babies

Post by cronus » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:11 pm

BBC are either too dumb or too lazy to figure the extinction of the human race is in the wrap here. It took 500 million people to produce one monster called Isaac Newton. It might take a few hundred Isaac Newtons to get us out this mess - it certainly means comfort for the mediocre, any decline. :roll:
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Re: No more babies

Post by Rum » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:57 pm

What?

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Re: No more babies

Post by PsychoSerenity » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:00 pm

Alan B wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:50 pm
I don't propose anything. I'm just making what I feel to be a valid observation. I stand to be corrected if you have any more info.

But, of course, there's always Soylent Green... :whistle:
There's no inherent reason why there should be a strong correlation between the number of people and the amount of environmental damage done. For the last few hundred years we been taking natural resources, using them and dumping them. Our economy is geared primarily towards this consumption/waste model, but there's no reason it needs to be other than it is making a few people obscenely wealthy. If we change that then the number of people becomes almost irrelevant.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: No more babies

Post by Rum » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:28 pm

Long may you continue to live in hope. There's very little sign that the so called leaders of this world are going to put global interests before national ones - not in time anyway. If women continue to be educated at the present rate (the key factor in all this) and that also takes hold in Africa, which is still having 6 kids plus per woman as opposed to the 1.5 or so in the 'developed' world. things may be manageable.

A more likely scenario is that as the population grows to its maximum and countries bicker over resources there will be more conflicts. That in itself of course is one of nature's ways of limiting population.

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Re: No more babies

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:29 pm

Alan B wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:34 pm
Rosling also demonstrated that in societies where economies remain well regulated and stable, where democratic processes and institutions are robust, where there is universal access to education and health care and a functioning social safety net, then population growth tends towards a below than 1:1 ratio.
Yes. But I would suspect, (I'm guessing here), that the countries that meet those conditions are in the minority. :dunno: (link?)

Even so, if every country met those conditions, it would take an awful long time to reduce the world population to a level of equilibrium that would not cause damage to the biosphere. Do we actually have that amount of time before we irreversibly mess things up ?
If those conditions could be met now, with a wave of a magic wand as it were, "econominum correcticus!", we'd see a difference in a single generation. If we were to spend a generation working towards meeting those conditions then we'd see a difference in two generations. The longer social, economic, and political inequality persists, and the longer we stagnate under the systematic burdens we have placed upon ourselves, the less the chances of effecting real material change not just in terms of population growth, but also in terms of economic stability and the broader social goods afforded by the alleviation of poverty and the provision of safety nets, healthcare and education etc.

I think global population, both as a concept and as a BIG number, is often singled out and made to carry too much weight on its own here. Again, if we could apply a magic wand to global population and slow its growth to zero, or even reign it back to a below 1:1 ratio, or just reduce it in one go, "populatium reducio!", the economic, democratic, and social privations which impact the majority of the world's societies would not be similarly magically resolved as well. All I'm saying here is that a nominal reduction in global population numbers is not a means to an end in itself - and to treat it otherwise is, to a great extent, to miss the bigger picture.
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Re: No more babies

Post by cronus » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Half the population will lead to double the number of millionaires and billionaires - who disproportionately piss CO2 into the atmosphere. It's only a small numb,er of people who can see and focus on the big picture enough to remedy the situation. The more millionaires and billionaires there are the more difficult it'll be to make a change. :bored:
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Re: No more babies

Post by Jason » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:13 pm

One Newton per billionaire then is it?

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Re: No more babies

Post by cronus » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:31 pm

Jason wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:13 pm
One Newton per billionaire then is it?
I've not done the exact calculation. If most humans are teachable animals the earth can only hold so many newtons before it gets weird enough for that...easy to have too many billionaires of the wrong sort making their money in coal. ;)
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Re: No more babies

Post by laklak » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:43 pm

Fig Newtons. Horrid things.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: No more babies

Post by Rum » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:46 pm

Crumple is clearly a Newton of the fig variety.

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Re: No more babies

Post by laklak » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:51 pm

They also make Strawberry Newtons, Triple Berry Newtons, Whole Grain Newtons, and Fat Free Newtons. Nobody has any respect for tradition these day, bloody youngsters. I bet if you lined up all the various Newtons they'd be a meter long. A Newton Meter.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: No more babies

Post by Rum » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:54 pm

laklak wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:51 pm
They also make Strawberry Newtons, Triple Berry Newtons, Whole Grain Newtons, and Fat Free Newtons. Nobody has any respect for tradition these day, bloody youngsters. I bet if you lined up all the various Newtons they'd be a meter long. A Newton Meter.
As you know Newton was wrong. You can't line up a load of Newtons, of whatever kind. Einstein learned us that Newtons are curved. Which of course fig Newtons, uncannily, already are! What foresight!

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Re: No more babies

Post by laklak » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:34 pm

Bloody pointy-headed scientists, always WRONG. Therefore Jebus.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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