My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post Reply
User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by mistermack » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:10 pm

Forty Two wrote: you're speculating
Hallaluja !! The penny has finally dropped. Did you think I'd had this published ?
Forty Two wrote: I'm not sure why the limit of your speculation is drawn at where does the new space from?
The idea is "if so and so, then so and so". I'm not claiming to be a scientist, but they do a lot of that sort of thing.
Forty Two wrote: While we're at it, nobody knows, and nobody in the field of physics thinks, that matter sucks space to begin with.
Not so. This has been passed by peer review, and been published about black holes in the American Journal of Physics. http://aapt.scitation.org/doi/10.1119/1.2830526

It doesn't mean it's accepted theory, but it does mean that the maths has been done, and matches the proposition.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by Rum » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:42 pm

Another video from Erik Verlinde: 'Gravity Doesn't Exist'. Worth ten minutes of your time..and space..

..where he starts at the 'microscopic level'.





(For some reason the the vid won't load - just the link - click on it!)

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 73015
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:56 pm

Analogies are potentially misleading. Gasses and liquids flow. To regard space as something that can emulate that process is not, IMO, a useful analogy.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by Rum » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:02 pm

JimC wrote:Analogies are potentially misleading. Gasses and liquids flow. To regard space as something that can emulate that process is not, IMO, a useful analogy.
On the other hand theoretical physicists, trying to communicate with dullards like me need metaphors, illustrations and the like to get the ideas they are dealing with in their genius math shit into some sort of format that will make some sort of sense (to me!).

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by mistermack » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:04 pm

Long before I wrote the OP piece, I've heard cosmologists on the tv talking about detecting huge unexplainable "flows" in space, so it's not just me, or the people who wrote the river model study that I linked.
Not that I'm claiming that as any kind of evidence, but they do readily use the concept of some sort of flow when it's convenient.
That's not to say that it would be just like a liquid or gas flow.
Other people have treated the river model as a flow of reference frames into a black hole.
I've seen references all over the net to that study, none disputing that it's a valid way to model what's happening at a black hole.
Here is the whole article, if you're interested : https://archive.org/stream/arxiv-gr-qc0 ... 0_djvu.txt

What I take from it is that it's not ludicrous to talk about space being attracted to a massive body, and disappearing into it. Obviously, if space WERE streaming into a black hole, that space wouldn't know what was causing it to move. Black hole gravity isn't any different to Earth gravity, outside of the event horizon.

What I would like to establish, but can't, is whether the acceleration of the flow would be inversely proportional to the change in radius of a sphere squared.

If you picture a sphere of water, around a draining pipe in the ocean, then obviously, the water nearest the pipe moves fastest, and as you go outwards, it's slower and slower. So the water would be accelerating inwards.
Does the acceleration follow the inverse square law?
I think it would, as the change in volume of the sphere is related to the cube of the radius, so you're dividing radius cubed by the radius, giving r2.
But I'm shit at maths, so that's a guess.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 73015
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by JimC » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:53 pm

mistermack wrote:

...detecting huge unexplainable "flows" in space...
The critical word here is "in", not "of". There are regions in the cosmos where there are anomalous movements of galaxies, but this is a movement of matter through space, the details of which which may be puzzling, but it has no connection with mm's idea.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by mistermack » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:08 pm

That's probably right. There are movements all over space that don't match the known expected movement under gravity, and they are put down to dark matter and dark energy. But they are all movements in orbits round galaxies.
I was vaguely remembering some wallah on either Horizon, or the Sky at Night, talking about gigantic apparent movements of entire areas of space, all moving as one unit across the sky at very great distances away. But they were very guarded about whether it was real or apparent, and it's nothing to do with what I'm proposing.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by mistermack » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:49 am

On reflection, if space WAS accelerating towards the Earth at the same rate that gravity causes things to drop, then the speed that it's passing us by, on the surface, has to equal the escape velocity of the Earth, as it's the same thing in reverse.

That means that we would be in a flow of space of about 11.186 km/s going vertically down.
That compares to about 0.5 km/s rotation at the equator, and about 30 km/s around the Sun.
Then the Sun goes round the Milky Way at 220 km/s .

The nearest thing in the Universe to a special, or universal reference frame, is the cosmic microwave background, which permeates the entire Universe, and they recently got a fix on that.
We are moving at 390 km/s relative to that.

Also, the galaxies in our neighborhood are also moving at a speed of nearly 1,000 kilometers per second towards something called the Great Attractor which is an area of space with a lot of gravity.

So the 11.186 km/s figure for this idea is pretty small in comparison to what we know is happening to us on a grand scale.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59296
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:55 pm

mistermack wrote:the Great Attractor..
Isn't that your nickname?
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:31 pm

I didn't know Mr M was so high up in the Freemasons. :tea:
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 40340
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by Svartalf » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:40 pm

what rite? there's only 3 ranks in your basic, vanilla masonry flavor.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by mistermack » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:52 pm

When I was first chewing over this idea, it was the similarity between acceleration and gravity that was nagging at me.
Why would they be so similar? When you open the throttle of a powerful bike, you immediately feel a new "gravity" pulling your body backwards. Yet there is one big problem staring at you, if you try to picture the two phenomena being the same. And that is the speed of light.
I have a force of about 80kg pushing at my feet 24/7. I'm obviously not going anywhere, so how can this be due to acceleration? Ok, so introduce the idea of space accelerating past me into the Earth. Now I could be accelerating, relative to space. BUT, if I keep accelerating at 9.81 m/s², I worked it out that I would hit the speed of light in less than a year. (353 days and 20 hrs to nearest hour, if you're interested.)
So in less than a year, I would have broken the speed of light, relative to the space passing me by.
So how can you constantly accelerate, and yet not go any faster? And that's what's answered by the funneling of space into a smaller and smaller sphere. There HAS to be a constant acceleration, at any point in the gravitational well, as it decreases in volume.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:56 pm

Acceleration is a quantity, gravity is a force.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by mistermack » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:10 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:Acceleration is a quantity, gravity is a force.
According to General relativity, gravity and acceleration are indistinguishable. Gravity isn't modelled as a force, but the result of curvature of space time.

You feel a force, from gravity. But you also feel a force from acceleration in exactly the same way, as a push in your back, when you hit the accelerator of an f1 car.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: My own version of gravity. Tear this to bits.

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:51 pm

Now you're throwing inertia into the bag with acceleration and gravity, and then shaking it all about a bit.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests