New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

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New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by cronus » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:46 am

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 091656.htm

New Zealand's moa were exterminated by an extremely low-density human population

A new study suggests that the flightless birds named moa were completely extinct by the time New Zealand's human population had grown to two and half thousand people at most.

The new findings, which appear in the journal Nature Communications, incorporate results of research by international teams involved in two major projects led by Professor Richard Holdaway (Palaecol Research Ltd and University of Canterbury) and Mr Chris Jacomb (University of Otago), respectively.

The researchers calculate that the Polynesians whose activities caused moa extinction in little more than a century had amongst the lowest human population densities on record. They found that during the peak period of moa hunting, there were fewer than 1500 Polynesian settlers in New Zealand, or about 1 person per 100 square kilometres, one of the lowest population densities recorded for any pre-industrial society.

They found that the human population could have reached about 2500 by the time moa went extinct. For several decades before then moa would have been rare luxuries.

Estimates of the human population during the moa hunting period are more sensitive to how long it took to exterminate the birds through hunting and habitat destruction than to the size of the founding population.
To better define the critical period of moa hunting, the research was aimed at "book-ending" the moa hunter period with new estimates for when people started eating moa, and when there were no more moa to eat.

(continued)
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"I'll have Samoa that moa, before there's none left."

Post by piscator » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:28 am

A 10-ft 500-lb cassowary blocking the goddamn trail and kicking over huts and trees and shit was probably something you didn't want to have in your life, back in the day.
Never mind that they probably tasted just like a 10-foot tall 500-lb chikkin...

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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Hermit » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:40 am

Despite the size of some of them, the moa were herbivores and likely quite timid. If I lived in New Zealand during the 15th century I'd probably be more wary of Haast's eagle. Though only up to 15 kilograms in weight, their main food source was the moa. The eagles' dependence on the moa for food was so great that the species became extinct at the same time the moa did, so I'd probably not be all that anxious about either kicking over my whare-puni.
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Tyrannical » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:50 am

The article also implies that other mega fauna extinctions that were previously blamed on climate change was caused by humans hunting. That's actually big news, because megafauna extinction is used as evidence for the dangers of climate change.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by cronus » Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:23 pm

Tyrannical wrote:The article also implies that other mega fauna extinctions that were previously blamed on climate change was caused by humans hunting. That's actually big news, because megafauna extinction is used as evidence for the dangers of climate change.
Quite right. Warm weather allowed humans to flourish. Warmer still and even better. :read:
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Tero » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Tyrannical wrote:The article also implies that other mega fauna extinctions that were previously blamed on climate change was caused by humans hunting. That's actually big news, because megafauna extinction is used as evidence for the dangers of climate change.
?? This is not news. It's been known quite a while. but most agree we just helped it along
Whether the general mammoth population died out for climatic reasons or due to overhunting by humans is controversial.[28] During the transition from the Late Pleistocene era to the Holocene era, there was shrinkage of the distribution of the mammoth because of the progressive warming at the end of the Pleistocene era resulted in change in the mammoth's environment. The mammoth steppe was a periglacial landscape with rich herb and grass vegetation that disappeared along with the mammoth because of environmental changes in the climate. Mammoths had moved to isolated spots in Eurasia, where they disappeared completely. Also, it is said that Late Paleolithic and Mesolithic human hunters may have affected the size of the last mammoth populations in Europe.[29] There is evidence to suggest that humans did cause the mammoth extinction, although there is no definitive proof. It was found that humans living south of a mammoth steppe learned to adapt themselves to the harsher climates north of the steppe, where mammoths resided. It was concluded that if humans could survive the harsh north climate of that particular mammoth steppe that it was possible humans could hunt (and eventually extinguish) mammoths everywhere. Another theory suggests mammoths may have fallen victim to an infectious disease. A combination of climate change and hunting by humans may be a possible explanation for their extinction. Homo erectus is known to have consumed mammoth meat as early as 1.8 million years ago,[30] though this may mean only successful scavenging, rather than actual hunting. Later humans show greater evidence for hunting mammoths, mammoth bones at a 50,000 year old site in Britain suggest that Neanderthals butchered the animals,[31] while various sites in Eastern Europe dating from 15,000 to 44,000 years old suggest humans (probably Homo sapiens) built dwellings using mammoth bones (the age of some of the earlier structures suggests Neanderthals may have begun the practice).[32] However, the American Institute of Biological Sciences also notes bones of dead elephants, left on the ground and subsequently trampled by other elephants, tend to bear marks resembling butchery marks, which have previously been misinterpreted as such by archaeologists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammoth#Extinction

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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Hermit » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:09 pm

Tyrannical wrote:The article also implies that other mega fauna extinctions that were previously blamed on climate change was caused by humans hunting. That's actually big news, because megafauna extinction is used as evidence for the dangers of climate change.
Most mega fauna extinctions occurred before humans even arrived on the scene.
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by mistermack » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:38 pm

The Moa might have been driven to extinction by humans eating their eggs, rather than eating the birds themselves.
Before humans came along, there was probably nothing that could break the shells of the eggs.
But humans could easily cook the eggs and break the shells.

I don't know how the Ostrich has survived egg predation.
Maybe they have a much bigger environment, or maybe Africans worked out that if you eat all the eggs, you don't have any Ostriches.
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Hermit » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:14 pm

mistermack wrote:The Moa might have been driven to extinction by humans eating their eggs, rather than eating the birds themselves.
Before humans came along, there was probably nothing that could break the shells of the eggs.
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by klr » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:36 pm

Tyrannical wrote:The article also implies that other mega fauna extinctions that were previously blamed on climate change was caused by humans hunting. That's actually big news, because megafauna extinction is used as evidence for the dangers of climate change.
Really? News to me. When there are humans or there ancestors about, they usually get the blame.
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Hermit » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:10 am

klr wrote:When there are humans or there ancestors about
Mister grammar-nazi-man, would you please give yourself a stern look of disapproval perhaps accompanied by the severest "tut-tut" type sound you can muster? :hehe:
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Blind groper » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:40 am

Hermit wrote:Most mega fauna extinctions occurred before humans even arrived on the scene.
Incorrect.

There is an "amazing coincidence" in mega fauna extinctions of the past 60,000 years. In every case, the extinctions happened soon after humans arrived on the scene.

In Australia, over 100 species of megafauna died out within a few thousand years of the first humans arriving. The exact timing is uncertain due to the fact that there is not a lot of archaeological data on when the first humans actually arrived. The extinctions could have happened a lot more quickly than that.

In Madagascar, te giant elephant bird died out after humans arrived. The cause of its extinction is clear in the charred bones and eggshells of ancient middens.

In New Zealand, 36 species of native bird and one sub species of seal went extinct, within 200 years of the first humans arriving. No sufficient climate change existed to explain that.

In North America, a large number (over 20 at least) megafauna species went extinct around the time the first humans arrived.

In the Pacific, 2,000 species of birds went extinct as the Polynesians crossed from island to island.

In the Caribbean, some hundreds of bird species went extinct as the Carib Indians arrived.

There are hardly coincidence.

The other thing that the climate caused extinction theorists conveniently ignore is that most of these species that went extinct survived before humans for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, and survived numerous climate change situations. They proved their ability to tolerate climate change. But as soon as humans arrive on the scene, arrrrghhh.

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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by cronus » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:58 am

A most efficient killer species. Someone should transfer a few dozen to a paradise world that knows nothing of them? The blue ones will think them friendly....to begin with. :read:
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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by Blind groper » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:44 pm

There is another aspect of moa extinctions I am very, very skeptical about.

It is said by many so-celled 'experts' that the reason the giant NZ eagle went extinct, about the same time as the moa went extinct, is because they fed on moa and thus starved. I believe this to be wrong. When the first white people got to NZ, they found literally millions of fur seals around the South Island of NZ. That would be a most abundant source of food, with dead seals washing up every few miles up and down the coast. Not to mention the enormous number of seal pups in spring. And that is not the only possible food source. Many other bird species in great abundance.

So why did the giant eagle go extinct? Well, why did North American natives hunt eagles? For their feathers. For adornment. The giant NZ eagle must have had truly magnificent flight feathers. In addition, it had been top predator for millions of years and probably had no fear of any other living thing. A hunter approaching an eagle would be watched with curiosity, not fear. That lack of threat would also lead to it building nests close to its food source, making them vulnerable to hunters.

The death of the moa and the death of the giant eagle, in my opinion, had the same cause. Human hunters.

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Re: New Zealand's moa were exterminated by the hungry few

Post by piscator » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:56 pm

Interesting to note that the Eastern population of Northern Fur Seals Callorhinus ursinus has declined in recent years, while at the same time producing pups at the same rate as in the highest recorded population growth periods (high fecundity/low recruitment).
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/3590/0

The Haast's Eagle may have well been too specialized to overcome the sudden loss of its primary food supply. It's been surmised that the eagle made diving, striking attacks on the heads of the great moas, which I imagine by the size of their leg bones to be much more cassowary-like than turkey-like, assumptions of "gentle vegetarianism" to the contrary. The great raptor may have been able to pull that off on some type of deer-sized animal, but may have been stuck if he was limited to getting the drop on an animal in daylight in a place open enough to pull out after striking its unsuspecting prey in the head with a moment of force of 10 cricket bats wielded by 10 massive tattooed Pacific Islanders. I'd imagine an eagle on the ground was likely stomped onto a bloody pile of feathers, beaks, and eyeballs if there was anything left after he misjudged his high risk divebomb.
The eagle may have not liked seal, or marine mammal carrion. It's a different meat and fat, and rotting marine mammals host much different bacteria colonies than upland carrion or fish. Nothing stinks like a rotting marine mammal.
I don't have a lot of support for that bit of speculation, but my eagles prefer fresh meat to carrion.


Also interesting to note that the Municipality of Anchorage, with whom I do a lot of business, is of course abbreviated MOA and pronounced like "Noah", with an "M". So you can see just how close I am to being able to bill someone for this time. :{D

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