How to combat antibiotic-resistant bacteria

[mistermack]

Here is my new anti-infection strategy.

Instead of concentrating on new drugs, concentrate on the bacteria.
Use their amazing powers of mutation against them.

Take the most common infection-causing bacteria, and breed new strains.
Select for strains that are the least potent as infection-causers. And also, select for strains that fall over and die at the least hint of the cheapest antibiotic.

Then, when you have strains that are as harmless as you can possibly make them, breed them in vast quantities, and saturate the hospital environments with them.

Constantly release them into the air in hospitals, and keep applying them to the skin of patients, like talcum powder, after every shower that a patient takes, and make sure that they get into every nook and cranny.

Then, they will out-compete the nasty bacteria that are in the environment. They won't get a look in, because of sheer numbers.

As time goes on, gene-exchange between the bacteria will weaken the antibiotic resistance that has built up in hospital bacteria, and the problem goes away.

Problem solved.
Nobel prize, please.

[Elderito]

As time goes on, gene-exchange between the bacteria will weaken the antibiotic resistance that has built up in hospital bacteria, and the problem goes away.

Unfortunately the gene exchange in bacteria, plasmid mediated, is like file sharing. The resistant ones tend to make lots of copies of the gene for antibiotic resitance, such as beta-lactamase, and distribute it freely with no regard for the original copywrite so everybody gets resistant in short order.

[laklak]

I find the best way to get rid of bacteria is to smash them with a rock.

[Tero]

These bacteria are just normal bacteria. They are not superbacteria. The only change is survival from known antibacterial agents.

But yes, we messed up.

[JimC]

Phages may be the key.

[pErvinalia]

Here is my new anti-infection strategy.

Instead of concentrating on new drugs, concentrate on the bacteria.
Use their amazing powers of mutation against them.

Take the most common infection-causing bacteria, and breed new strains.
Select for strains that are the least potent as infection-causers. And also, select for strains that fall over and die at the least hint of the cheapest antibiotic.

Then, when you have strains that are as harmless as you can possibly make them, breed them in vast quantities, and saturate the hospital environments with them.

Constantly release them into the air in hospitals, and keep applying them to the skin of patients, like talcum powder, after every shower that a patient takes, and make sure that they get into every nook and cranny.

Then, they will out-compete the nasty bacteria that are in the environment.

How are they going to out-compete the bacteria that are anti-biotic resistant? You better put that Nobel Prize on hold for a bit, Professor.

[JimC]

Here is my new anti-infection strategy.

Instead of concentrating on new drugs, concentrate on the bacteria.
Use their amazing powers of mutation against them.

Take the most common infection-causing bacteria, and breed new strains.
Select for strains that are the least potent as infection-causers. And also, select for strains that fall over and die at the least hint of the cheapest antibiotic.

Then, when you have strains that are as harmless as you can possibly make them, breed them in vast quantities, and saturate the hospital environments with them.

Constantly release them into the air in hospitals, and keep applying them to the skin of patients, like talcum powder, after every shower that a patient takes, and make sure that they get into every nook and cranny.

Then, they will out-compete the nasty bacteria that are in the environment.

How are they going to out-compete the bacteria that are anti-biotic resistant? You better put that Nobel Prize on hold for a bit, Professor.

In theory, it might be possible, if the antibiotic-resistant bacteria required an extra metabolic process which slightly reduced their rate of division, at least in a situation with no antibiotics.

[pErvinalia]

Huh? When will this "situation with no antibiotics" be in play?

[JimC]

Huh? When will this "situation with no antibiotics" be in play?

When they are living in the environment (lurking in drains etc.) or infecting people not on a course of antibiotics. I'm not really convinced that it is a solution, but I do remember reading that being anti-biotic resistant comes at a small metabolic price.

[mistermack]

How are they going to out-compete the bacteria that are anti-biotic resistant? You better put that Nobel Prize on hold for a bit, Professor.

In the same way that the Germans out-competed the Belgians in WW2. Sheer numbers.
You might be Clint Eastwood, but my money would be on the 10 baddies.

It's true that INSIDE a patient, the antibiotic-resistant bacteria would have a huge advantage. Maybe even on the patients' skin, too. But everywhere else, in the environment, the nasties would lose out because of sheer numbers, and would have no individual advantage from antibiotic resistance.

Give that Nobel prize a little shine for me. I can wait.

[mistermack]

As time goes on, gene-exchange between the bacteria will weaken the antibiotic resistance that has built up in hospital bacteria, and the problem goes away.

Unfortunately the gene exchange in bacteria, plasmid mediated, is like file sharing. The resistant ones tend to make lots of copies of the gene for antibiotic resitance, such as beta-lactamase, and distribute it freely with no regard for the original copywrite so everybody gets resistant in short order.

But there's nothing special about resistance genes. The non resistant strains would be doing the same thing, with their less resistant genes. And if the numbers are vastly more, the more harmful ones will lose out.
Because bacteria don't live forever. They die in vast numbers. And their genes die with them.
So what you are doing is ensuring that the bad genes are always vastly outnumbered by the good ones, in the population.
Imagine you had a small Island that could only support a hundred people, and they were all black.
You import ten thousand white people, and they breed freely. After a thousand years, you would have a hundred mixed race.
Then you import another ten thousand white people. After a thousand years, they would all look white.
That's a simplified version of what should happen.
The environment can only support so many. And antibiotic resistance only helps INSIDE the patient.

[Babel]

Until those massively distributed bacteria evolve into a more resistent strain? Then you have actively infected every hospital with bacteria that have the potential to become at least equally dangerous to the current 'superbacteria', because you have not explained how you would prevent these domesticated bacteria from developing resistance against the 'weak antibiotics'.

Humans have had a few fuck ups in the past when it comes to introducing organisms in a new environment to curtail an existing issue with the flora/fauna of a specific location. You'd hope someone would pay attention and think twice before suggesting it again as some miracle cure.

[mistermack]

Until those massively distributed bacteria evolve into a more resistent strain? Then you have actively infected every hospital with bacteria that have the potential to become at least equally dangerous to the current 'superbacteria', because you have not explained how you would prevent these domesticated bacteria from developing resistance against the 'weak antibiotics'.

Humans have had a few fuck ups in the past when it comes to introducing organisms in a new environment to curtail an existing issue with the flora/fauna of a specific location. You'd hope someone would pay attention and think twice before suggesting it again as some miracle cure.

That wouldn't happen. Because evolution happens when certain genes PROLIFERATE in the overall population. You are artificially ensuring that the least harmful genes proliferate. So long as you constantly introduce fresh low-resistance bacteria, they can't evolve resistance.

It's like saying that there is no point in breeding dogs, they will revert to wolves. Yes they would, if you let them.

[pErvinalia]

How are they going to out-compete the bacteria that are anti-biotic resistant? You better put that Nobel Prize on hold for a bit, Professor.

In the same way that the Germans out-competed the Belgians in WW2. Sheer numbers.
You might be Clint Eastwood, but my money would be on the 10 baddies.

It's true that INSIDE a patient, the antibiotic-resistant bacteria would have a huge advantage. Maybe even on the patients' skin, too. But everywhere else, in the environment, the nasties would lose out because of sheer numbers, and would have no individual advantage from antibiotic resistance.

Give that Nobel prize a little shine for me. I can wait.

No, you aren't ready for it yet. It doesn't matter how many free bacteria are out there, the only ones we are concerned with are the ones inside us that make us sick. How are those good bacteria going to displace the nasty ones in us and in environments where they thrive (i.e. hospitals)? And further, do you actually have any evidence that bacteria that make us sick are in big numbers in the environment anyway? Who says they are in competition with the other bazillions of bacteria hordes out there? Why will stuffing a few more zillion bacteria into the environment make any difference at all?

[mistermack]

No, you aren't ready for it yet. It doesn't matter how many free bacteria are out there, the only ones we are concerned with are the ones inside us that make us sick. How are those good bacteria going to displace the nasty ones in us and in environments where they thrive (i.e. hospitals)? And further, do you actually have any evidence that bacteria that make us sick are in big numbers in the environment anyway? Who says they are in competition with the other bazillions of bacteria hordes out there? Why will stuffing a few more zillion bacteria into the environment make any difference at all?

I certainly wouldn't claim that they could displace the ones inside you. They wouldn't stand a chance, if you were on anti-biotics.

There is a mechanism, for a resistant bug, to get from one infected patient to an uninfected patient.
Often it's via visitors, or dust or whatever. It doesn't matter.
The bug has to survive in the environment, ( and proliferate as well ) to get to infect the next patient.
The environment isn't on antibiotics, so there, it has no advantage over the specially bred strains.

So by flooding the environment with harmless strains of the same bacteria, you are affecting the odds.
The environment can only support a certain number. After that they don't survive.
So by adding loads of X, you are effectively killing loads of Y.
And you are also ensuring that if a bacterium finds a way into your system, the chances are it will be an X, not a Y. It's prevention, not cure.