Do Plants Respond to Pain?

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Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by Gallstones » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:25 am

Well, do they? <--Excerpt

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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by Hermit » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:39 am

Of course they do. Many years ago it's been scientifically proven that the flora on this planet consists of sentient, intelligent beings. Haven't you read the book?

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We really ought to eat rocks only, but even here we must be careful not to eat the sentient variety.

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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:30 am

Plants respond to a variety of stimuli, in many interesting ways.

Pain, however, is a sensation based on neuronal patterns.

Plants don't have neurones.

So, no they don't...
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:44 am

There is an argument (and evidence) that they have functionally equivalent structures to neurons. How close they are, functionally, I'm not qualified to say.
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by PsychoSerenity » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:15 am

To actually experience pain, the neuronal or equivalent patterns would have to be able to produce conciousness. In fact arguably, buy definition as it's normally used, it's only pain if it's in the form of concious experience. If the only effect of a stimulus is response rather than an experience, then it's not pain.
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by Animavore » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:18 am

They do if their name is 'Robert'.
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:48 am

:lol:
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:52 am

PsychoSerenity wrote:To actually experience pain, the neuronal or equivalent patterns would have to be able to produce conciousness. In fact arguably, buy definition as it's normally used, it's only pain if it's in the form of concious experience. If the only effect of a stimulus is response rather than an experience, then it's not pain.
It's an interesting area of study. I've pretty much given up trying to understand what consciousness exactly is these days. But "pain" is an emotional response/phenomenon. Does that mean it must be experienced in a being with consciousness? I don't know. There's probably most likely variable levels of consciousness on a sort of graduated scale. Are dogs conscious? Are birds? Fish? insects? Which of those can feel pain in the sense that it's more than just a stimulus-response reaction? Fucking mind bending field. I wish someone would hurry up and work it all out.. ;)
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:11 pm

I don't think human level consciousness is needed to experience pain, but it does require a central nervous system where information from specific pain nerves is collected, processed and leads to action to reduce the pain. Human level consciousness adds a component of suffering, of reflecting on the pain, of being unhappy and miserable about it.

None of this applies to plants, IMO...
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:50 pm

There are plenty of reflex reactions that are not triggered by pain. Think of a sneeze, for example, or how you pull away if someone points their finger close to your eye.

Simply demonstrating that a harm-reducing reflex reaction is present is NOT the same as showing that anything feels pain.
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:54 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:There are plenty of reflex reactions that are not triggered by pain. Think of a sneeze, for example, or how you pull away if someone points their finger close to your eye.

Simply demonstrating that a harm-reducing reflex reaction is present is NOT the same as showing that anything feels pain.
If the experience modifies future behaviour in a similar way to the old saw "the burnt child fears the fire", I'm prepared to put it under the category "pain"...
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:31 pm

JimC wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:There are plenty of reflex reactions that are not triggered by pain. Think of a sneeze, for example, or how you pull away if someone points their finger close to your eye.

Simply demonstrating that a harm-reducing reflex reaction is present is NOT the same as showing that anything feels pain.
If the experience modifies future behaviour in a similar way to the old saw "the burnt child fears the fire", I'm prepared to put it under the category "pain"...
Reflex reactions occur before pain! Something burns your finger, you don't wait for your brain to react before you pull your finger away - that is done via a much quicker loop between the finger and the spinal cord. You don't feel pain until afterwards, when the brain gets to hear about it.

Disconnect the nerves leading to the pain centres in your brain and you will STILL pull your finger away from a flame. The reflex is not a learned response to reduce pain. The pain is simply a reinforcement to stop you from sticking your finger into flames in the first place.

Do Venus Fly-Trap leaves feel pleasure when they snap closed on a fly? Do they feel hunger? Perhaps they are jealous of that bastard in the sunny spot that is attracting all the mosquitoes? Do Amoebas orgasm when they bud? Do swipe-card machines feel smug when you swipe an out-of-date card through them?

Analogous reactions is not evidence of similar "feelings". Pain is a central Nervous System phenomenon - and plants don't have ANY nervous system - central or otherwise. So, no, they don't feel pain - and neither do they pay any attention to Prince Charles' prattling (upon that, we are much alike.)
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by PsychoSerenity » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:36 pm

:lol: Well put, XC!
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:42 pm

I'm fairly certain we can say that mammals and birds can experience a sensation we can legitimately call pain. I'm less certain that a nematode can experience pain, and convinced that it is not an appropriate label to apply to plants.
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Re: Do Plants Respond to Pain?

Post by tattuchu » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:43 pm

I think they feel pain. They're very empathic. When I feel sad, they feel sad. I can tell
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