Bitcoin & the crypto-currency revolution. (get some here).

[Skepticus]

I've dabbled with Bitcoin a little but less than I intended to.

That's good news Pappa

I see you were the one who posted the Ratz funding thread. I was going to drop a sugestion in there that you might like to update your donation info with a bitcoin address. Bitcoin is just great for NPO's and charities. It allows them to take micro-donations with a tiny fraction of the transacting costs of bank transfers or PoxPal. Since I intend to give out some bitcoin for the contributers to this thread perhaps I'll also match it coin for coin with a donation of (1 BTC) to the organisation. If a few people have some amount bitcoin to play with, they can do stuff like put their address in their sig, and tip each other for posts that are appreciated. They might even donate some to Ratz. That kind of a win win deal all round.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Well aparently you're a lost cause then mistermac. In which case I do wish you hadn't stopped by to discorage others, or posit futile ilinformed interjections to those, who HAVE done the research, who ARE prepared to go to the effort and make this world a better place. I'm trying to help people to understand and to use bitcoin, if they want to here. I don't wish to debate people who don't have a clue what the fuck they are talking about, and aren't interested enough to learn. FFS.

Ah, I see you've met mistermack. You'll find he is just as informed and happy to share his onions about any other subject you can name. But just wait till he throws back your own words at you and starts arguing semantics with strawmen - that's when the real fun starts.

I just put him on ignore long ago. The sound of empty vessels hurts my ears.

[mistermack]

You've made a friend Skepticus.
You should get on well with Xamonas.
Just remember to humour him, when he writes something stupid. He likes that.

[Tyrannical]

What backs bitcoins with tangible value? Artificially created scarcity of a virtual item is no basis for a currency.

What backs a £10 note with tangible value? It is after all just an IOU.

I've no idea what backs up a £10 note, but US currency is backed up by the full faith and power of it's military might. Bit coin has nothing and is required to follow the sovereign laws of what ever country it operates in. Seriously, if you think bit coin is a good idea just buy gold instead.

[Skepticus]

Plus, it still puts it in the ass of the late comers like me and those who don't have the means to establish their own mining operation...

Well lukily we don't have to mine to earn bitcoin. Much like gold, we can do it the hard dirty way, or put up somthing of value (products services etc), or just buy some. Most All of the value in existing bitcoin has come from appreciation (deflation) in value due to demand. So Even though I own much less than I did when I mined, it's still worth much more now. It's still VERY early days and bitcoin is nowhere near its world wide potential. Getting hold of some and holding on to it, is still the easiest way to make a gain. It dosn't look like the rising demand is going to stop any time soon. Think about the world population and the hard limit to the number of bitcoin (21 million) that will ever exist. That's not many coins to go around and thats why the demand increases by about an oder of magnitude every 1 -1.5 yrs. In about 3 more years the payout per block will halve again (as it already once has) and it will be even hader to mine bitcoin. But inversely that will cause the price to rise with demand, so the bitcoins that are mined, will be that much more valuable. It's always debatable wether it's more economical to mine, to invest in something to earn bicoin, or wheter to buy outright. I done a bit of each, but wherever they have come from, my bitcoin have earned me more by just sitting there gaining value.

[jaydot]

bitcoins sounds like a lovely ponzi scheme if you can pull it off. it's a classic example of how to sell something that doesn't exist to someone who doesn't need it. the early adopters will make some money. the latecomers stand to lose their investment.

[Skepticus]

bitcoins sounds like a lovely ponzi scheme if you can pull it off. it's a classic example of how to sell something that doesn't exist to someone who doesn't need it. the early adopters will make some money. the latecomers stand to lose their investment.

I wonder if you've done any research about this. No wait... I don't wonder that at all.

[mistermack]

Plus, it still puts it in the ass of the late comers like me and those who don't have the means to establish their own mining operation...

Well lukily we don't have to mine to earn bitcoin. Much like gold, we can do it the hard dirty way, or put up somthing of value (products services etc), or just buy some. Most All of the value in existing bitcoin has come from appreciation (deflation) in value due to demand. So Even though I own much less than I did when I mined, it's still worth much more now. It's still VERY early days and bitcoin is nowhere near its world wide potential. Getting hold of some and holding on to it, is still the easiest way to make a gain. It dosn't look like the rising demand is going to stop any time soon. Think about the world population and the hard limit to the number of bitcoin (21 million) that will ever exist. That's not many coins to go around and thats why the demand increases by about an oder of magnitude every 1 -1.5 yrs. In about 3 more years the payout per block will halve again (as it already once has) and it will be even hader to mine bitcoin. But inversely that will cause the price to rise with demand, so the bitcoins that are mined, will be that much more valuable. It's always debatable wether it's more economical to mine, to invest in something to earn bicoin, or wheter to buy outright. I done a bit of each, but wherever they have come from, my bitcoin have earned me more by just sitting there gaining value.

Sell sell sell sell sell sell sell sell.
It's coming across that you're working from a script.
Any Ratz would have to be mental to get involved.
But there are some mentals here, so keep selling.

[Azathoth]

I've no idea what backs up a £10 note, but US currency is backed up by the full faith and power of it's military might. Bit coin has nothing and is required to follow the sovereign laws of what ever country it operates in..

Nope that is bullshit. Bitcoin is an agreement between private parties that something has an intrinsic value. No gubmint involvement is needed or wanted. It is a libertarians wet dream.

[Skepticus]

What backs bitcoins with tangible value? Artificially created scarcity of a virtual item is no basis for a currency.

Not long before I began using bitcoin (back in 2010) there was a feller who bought a pizza for 10,000 bitcoin. At todays price that pizza would be worth over $1.300.000. But hey it was just an experiment then. Then I rememebr it gaining parity with the dolar. The value increased, because people could use it for micro payments, just person to person. It didnt need to have a high price, because it was cheap to get. But folks saw that this was usefull and somebody decided that they should sell their home made alpaca socks, and then a leather craft guy started selling his hand crafted wallets. All sorts of nice thing poped up, because cottage industry types could forge a trade over the net in a way that was never possible before. There were virtualy no fees, and transactions were confirmed in a minute or less. The value first came from the simple utility and usability of the idea. The high gaurd of crypto-geeks were also onto this fast, as were some of the the hosting sites and code monkeys who could use this as a way to transact their services without middlemen.

One after the other a plethora of new services and products apeared that each created more and more demand for bitcoin. Why? Because they could all do online trading with nearlly no fees. Theres no greedy pigs in the middle. The concept is technicaly briliant and does away with the greed brokers. Its Peer To Peer (P2P). I could send bitcoin directly to you Tyrannical, no midle man at all. That's what gives bitcoin value... well that and scarcity. If money isn't made to be scarce, then it will do what our government fiat currency does (because they keep lending it out), it will devalue against inflation. Watch the first video I linked above (Money As Debt ONE) to learn how the fiat currency and fractional reserve banking system opperate. Then compare that to bitcoin. Bitcoin is restricted in the codebase itself and limited to run out like gold mining. The reason the value is on such a HUGE upward parabola, is because the value is increasing according to the simple laws of supply and demand. Scarcity in bitcoin is 100% more real than the non-existent scarcity (rather over supply) of the debt based fiat currency and that's why we live with perpetual inflation of the economy. The existing economic model is flat out unsustanable. Serious. If you don't understand this, then I emplore you to watch the video (at least the first one) Money As Debt. When you see what it shows you, you will understand how we can not go on like this. Bitcoin is the solution to unsustainable debt based economy. BTW: Bitcoin is no more 'virtual' than over 95 % of the fiat money in circulation. Most of the money in our fiat economy is in digital form.

[mistermack]

I've no idea what backs up a £10 note, but US currency is backed up by the full faith and power of it's military might. Bit coin has nothing and is required to follow the sovereign laws of what ever country it operates in..

Nope that is bullshit. Bitcoin is an agreement between private parties that something has an intrinsic value. No gubmint involvement is needed or wanted. It is a libertarians wet dream.

Yes, it relies on CONfidence. Something that can disappear within a few hours.
Fort Knox is a bit more solid. As are the assets of the US.

[rachelbean]

Thanks for taking the time to share the knowledge. It's something I've been interested in for a while, but I still don't have my head completely around. Anyway, I just downloaded the android app and desktop client but I'm not sure what's next

[cronus]

The major issue I foresee with a bit based currency is how many bits are out there - probably more than I'd care to speculate about and then some.

[Azathoth]

I've no idea what backs up a £10 note, but US currency is backed up by the full faith and power of it's military might. Bit coin has nothing and is required to follow the sovereign laws of what ever country it operates in..

Nope that is bullshit. Bitcoin is an agreement between private parties that something has an intrinsic value. No gubmint involvement is needed or wanted. It is a libertarians wet dream.

Yes, it relies on CONfidence. Something that can disappear within a few hours.
Fort Knox is a bit more solid. As are the assets of the US.

There hasn't been enough gold in fort knox to cover all the imaginary money floating round for a very long time. you have seen what happens when too many people want to cash out on their imaginary money

[pcCoder]

Doesn't BC require each computer running it keep a complete copy of the entire transaction of all transactions? If it were put to 'real world' use one large scale, how would that work?