Science news of the day thread.

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Tero
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Tero » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:10 pm

There was a bit of news on computing, and it was all the same as before: cooling/superconducting the chip with the "qubits."

I could not make out what the chip was made of. Superconducting magnets, such as in MRI, are just copper wire spools cooled by N2/He.

Even this SA article did not explain it, and neither did wiki.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -computer/
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Joe » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:34 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:21 am
Your levies are an engineering laughing stock. We are talking about proper dykes that actually protect; ask the people of New Orleans.
It is not used here Tero in drinking water or swimming pools. It is old fashioned.
Given that you had to go back 16 years to a category 5 hurricane for your example, I'll dismiss your opinion as more uninformed bloviation. When was the last time a category 5 hurricane hit the Netherlands? :coffee:

The US levee system is a serious set of protections that serve an area that dwarfs the Netherlands, as my maps demonstrate. You don't grasp that, or the cost and time constraints the massive scale of the project places on us. I bet our members from the larger countries like Canada, Australia, Germany, France, et cetera do.

Also, I don't know where Tero's drinking water comes from, but Americans don't get their water from a mere two rivers. In fact, 140 million of us get their water from the ground. Our largest source of water is the Ogallala Aquifer, which is 11 times the size of the Netherlands. It's easy to drill down and pump it up, but we have to deal with mineral and bacterial impurities on a scale the Netherlands doesn't from this and other underground sources. I wish we could process water the way The Netherland does, but we have 330 million people spread over an area 327 times its size. Your system won't scale up to that.

I'm pretty sure you can't grasp that either. :bored:
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Tero » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:50 pm

Again, it is not chloride that is used to clean water, but "chlorine" in the form of sodium hypochlorite, bleach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_pur ... sinfection

it would be Ok otherwise, but it chlorinates organic impurities in the water which then stick around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_chl ... #Drawbacks
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Tero » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:20 pm

Dutch ozone is the best ozone. It is used to clean contaminated water when bacteria are found.
dutch water.jpg
https://dwes.copernicus.org/articles/2/ ... 1-2009.pdf

Some 280 plants in the US use ozone

https://www.oxidationtech.com/applicati ... water.html

a huge one in Texas
https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-wat ... stallation
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Joe » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:16 pm

Good info Tero. :tup:

Just to emphasize the problem of scale, from your second link:
The future of ozone in WTP's in the USA is great. The EPA estimates there are over 150,000 municipal WTP's in the USA. Only ~300 of these WTP's are using, or planning on using ozone. Most of these plants are large, or very large. Opportunity for ozone use in WTP's in the USA is untapped.
~300 out of ~150,000 water treatment plants in the US use ozone.

How many water treatment plants does the Netherlands have? Asking for a friend. :biggrin:
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:15 am

Joe wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:34 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:21 am
Your levies are an engineering laughing stock. We are talking about proper dykes that actually protect; ask the people of New Orleans.
It is not used here Tero in drinking water or swimming pools. It is old fashioned.
Given that you had to go back 16 years to a category 5 hurricane for your example, I'll dismiss your opinion as more uninformed bloviation. When was the last time a category 5 hurricane hit the Netherlands? :coffee:

The US levee system is a serious set of protections that serve an area that dwarfs the Netherlands, as my maps demonstrate. You don't grasp that, or the cost and time constraints the massive scale of the project places on us. I bet our members from the larger countries like Canada, Australia, Germany, France, et cetera do.

I'm pretty sure you can't grasp that either. :bored:
Do you realise the quality of your levies? It is zilch. Why do you think Dutch engineers were called in to save New Orleans? Why do you think Dutch engineers were called in to New York to design the protection system for the city? Our experience and expertise is next to none.



Remember were are only 17 million people and we can pay for it.
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Joe » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:09 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:15 am
Joe wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:34 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:21 am
Your levies are an engineering laughing stock. We are talking about proper dykes that actually protect; ask the people of New Orleans.
It is not used here Tero in drinking water or swimming pools. It is old fashioned.
Given that you had to go back 16 years to a category 5 hurricane for your example, I'll dismiss your opinion as more uninformed bloviation. When was the last time a category 5 hurricane hit the Netherlands? :coffee:

The US levee system is a serious set of protections that serve an area that dwarfs the Netherlands, as my maps demonstrate. You don't grasp that, or the cost and time constraints the massive scale of the project places on us. I bet our members from the larger countries like Canada, Australia, Germany, France, et cetera do.

Also, I don't know where Tero's drinking water comes from, but Americans don't get their water from a mere two rivers. In fact, 140 million of us get their water from the ground. Our largest source of water is the Ogallala Aquifer, which is 11 times the size of the Netherlands. It's easy to drill down and pump it up, but we have to deal with mineral and bacterial impurities on a scale the Netherlands doesn't from this and other underground sources. I wish we could process water the way The Netherland does, but we have 330 million people spread over an area 327 times its size. Your system won't scale up to that.

I'm pretty sure you can't grasp that either. :bored:
Do you realise the quality of your levies? It is zilch. Why do you think Dutch engineers were called in to save New Orleans? Why do you think Dutch engineers were called in to New York to design the protection system for the city? Our experience and expertise is next to none.



Remember were are only 17 million people and we can pay for it.
I do realize the quality of our levees, far more than you. Your information is 16 years out of date. Back in September of this year, a category 4 hurricane called Ida wrecked havoc on Louisiana and much of the southern US. It was second only to Katrina in its damage and landed 50 miles from New Orleans. Did you hear about the horrible flooding in New Orleans? Nope, they have some 350 miles of good levees.

350 miles. What's that in your neck of the woods? About the length of your border with Germany? Here, it's 1.4 percent of the total length of the 24,616 miles of the US levee system. You're welcome to your opinion, but basing it on a small example from so long ago is poor reasoning. That our engineers are smart enough get Dutch help doesn't change that.

But let's get back the the original topic. I see you edited out the part about drinking water, which is our original topic. That's the kind of crap Forty Two used to do. :disappoint: :hehe:

Looking at the paper Tero posted the other day, this jumped out.
As of 2013, at least 277 Water Treatment Plant's (WTP's) operating in the USA utilize ozone. This number only includes plants larger than 1 MGD capacity. These plants have a combined combined capacity of 14.5 billion gallons per day with ozone production greater than 600,000 lb/day.
Can 17 million Dutch people get by on 14.5 billion gallons of ozone purified water a day? I mean, it's only 852 gallons per person. :funny:
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:41 am

Dutch water not the best water? You must be joking!
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:51 am

Who in the fuck rebuilt the levies at New Orleans? You dont. It was a Dutch company called Arcardis. You think your engineers are great. That is why so many Dutch companies have set up offices in America because your engineers are useless.
You go on about size. Did you actually watch the video? We have built some of the mega-engineering projects ever seen. Your levies are child's play for our engineers.
You have great misunderstanding but never mind. At least we are saving our country. Are you?
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Joe » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:45 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:51 am
Who in the fuck rebuilt the levies at New Orleans? You dont. It was a Dutch company called Arcadis. You think your engineers are great. That is why so many Dutch companies have set up offices in America because your engineers are useless.
You go on about size. Did you actually watch the video? We have built some of the mega-engineering projects ever seen. Your levies are child's play for our engineers.
You have great misunderstanding but never mind. At least we are saving our country. Are you?
It's funny how you think New Orleans is the entire US levee system. It's one city, and the levees were rebuilt by the US Army Core of Engineers with some great consulting from Arcadis. As I said, our engineers are smart enough to hire the best coastal water people. That doesn't make them useless, and given that you aren't an engineer, I discount your unsupported opinion significantly. I trust this guy's opinion somewhat more.
In an interview at his office in Rotterdam, Dircke told AJOT, “The Corps performed magnificently” in fast-tracking $14.5 billion in upgrades completed in 2011. As a result, when Hurricane Isaac struck New Orleans in 2012, the upgrades prevented a repeat of the deaths and damage caused by Hurricane Katrina in 2005, which cost $161 billion. Dircke related, “The structures that were built may have been oversized and ungainly looking but they saved New Orleans from destruction in 2012 and so you can say the investment was paid off within one year at a 100% rate.” One key to the project’s success was “The Army Corps speeded up approvals and testing to build a new system of pump stations and three large barriers that had been completed by 2011.”

Arcadis was a consultant to USACE and “we had someone in New Orleans for four years. “

Dircke noted, “This is still a largely untold story about how the federal government and the USACE saved New Orleans when some people wanted to abandon it.”
:swoon: :hehe:

I did watch your video, and while it was an awesome project, it's not as big as you think. This is the problem you have understanding the scale of the US water infrastructure. The coasts are an increasing challenge due to climate change, but they are a small part of the problems we have to manage. We aren't the Netherlands, where a significant part of our territory is below sea level. Clearly, you didn't look at the levee map I posted, or click through to the interactive version, because you would have seen this already. Tsk, tsk. Such indolence.

24,616 miles of levees. Enough to go around the Netherlands 18 times, but you don't want to learn what we do with them, eh? Not even a little curious? Did you know you can put stuff on them? :biggrin:

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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Joe » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:02 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:41 am
Dutch water not the best water? You must be joking!
I have it on good authority that French spring water is the best. :prof:
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by JimC » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:46 am

The US needs more dykes!
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Joe » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:19 am

Good thinking! Let's put one around a lake and name it after some loser.

Gotta watch out for hurricanes though. They can be trouble.

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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Svartalf » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:08 am

JimC wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:46 am
The US needs more dykes!
They already have plenty, I know, and they don't take well to boys trying to insert fingers...
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Re: Science news of the day thread.

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:32 am

Joe you seem to think size matters as plenty of Americans do. Technique and skills matter as you just have to scale up. You wont admit it will you your dump of a country is useless. Your levies offered no protection to New Orleans and it was only when Arcadis were brought in not as consultants but as main contractors did things improve. Although I am not a fully qualified transport engineer I worked for 25 years in the Traffic and Transport division of my Dutch engineering company as IT consultant and database engineer. We worked very closely with Arcadis in many projects.
We were often called in by various States to look at their infrastructure because it was crumbling and they were hoping for a quick fix which of course there was not. Investment is one of the major problems you have but due to corruption and chumocracy the money seldom reaches the spot required. The Biden package will go the same way.
The Netherlands is acknowledged as a major engineering country when it comes to infrastructure. We also excel at food production and healthcare. Obama came here often to examine our health system as being one of the best in Europe if not the world.
Just shut up about size as it is what you do with it that matters. :smoke:
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