Global Climate Change Science News

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JimC
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by JimC » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:06 am

Seth wrote:
piscator wrote:
Seth wrote:
piscator wrote:
Seth wrote:Nature is under no obligation to respect your wishes that things remain the way you have become comfortable with their being. Adapt or die.
Or deny there's a problem and start politicizing it for $$. You forgot that option. :coffee:
Or falsely claim there is a problem and politicize it for $$. You forgot that option. :coffee:

You presupposed a problem when you said, "Adapt or die", so "Falsely claim there's a problem" is not a logical option under your little rubric.
I presupposed nothing but climate change. The climate has been changing for about 4 billion years or so. It will continue to change until the Sun becomes a red giant and swallows the earth up. It's not a "problem" it's a feature.

Adapt or die, as living creatures have been doing for billions of years.
The models suggest that the current anthropogenic change will be extremely rapid, in comparison to changes that are part of natural long-term cycles. Given ecosystems already under stress from other human activities, it may cause a rather excessive number of extinctions, as well as impacting on many of our own structures and agricultural pursuits. If a combination of reducing CO2 emissions, possibly coupled with careful geoengineering to reduce CO2 levels further can ameliorate some of these effects, then why not? I'm not in the green lunacy brigade - whatever measures we adopt should not mean an absurd reduction in the energy use that supports our current civilisation, merely a measured series of actions which makes progress without extravagant and possibly destructive restrictions. For example, I would support a careful extension of current nuclear technology to reduce the number of coal-fired power stations that need to operate...
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Animavore » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:14 pm

The term 'adapt or die' also applies to energy companies. As more people can be educated in climate science and be convinced to demand green energies and put pressure on compnaies to fulfil that demand or switch to others which can, then those companies that can adapt to the change in demand will prosper. Those unwillingly or unable will perish, much like those CD and DVD merchants unable to keep up with the digital age by plugging into internet technologies.
Capitalism in effect.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Tero » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:41 pm

Jim, I think thorium reactors will come. But for now, politics will resist any change. About the only thing democrats will get going is capture of CO2 in coal powered plants. Coal gas (CO and H2) would allow some streamlining of gases emitted. The large volume of gases is the problem.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by klr » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:52 pm

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but there was an excellent BBC4 program called Climate Change By Numbers on this week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jsdrk

Seek it out, it's a good one.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:27 am

JimC wrote:
The models suggest that the current anthropogenic change will be extremely rapid, in comparison to changes that are part of natural long-term cycles. Given ecosystems already under stress from other human activities, it may cause a rather excessive number of extinctions, as well as impacting on many of our own structures and agricultural pursuits. If a combination of reducing CO2 emissions, possibly coupled with careful geoengineering to reduce CO2 levels further can ameliorate some of these effects, then why not? I'm not in the green lunacy brigade - whatever measures we adopt should not mean an absurd reduction in the energy use that supports our current civilisation, merely a measured series of actions which makes progress without extravagant and possibly destructive restrictions. For example, I would support a careful extension of current nuclear technology to reduce the number of coal-fired power stations that need to operate...
The problem is that the "models" seem to be unable to model reality, which makes them worse than useless for predicting the future.

What if AGW is occurring at the same time that the planet is sinking into a somewhat-overdue glacial period, and AGW is the only thing preventing us from all freezing to death in a new ice age?

I don't have a problem with nuclear power, and I agree that, particularly in the US, the green lunacy Luddites, have stifled reasonable and safe nuclear power like the reactors used in France for decades now. While it may or may not be the case that coal burning ought to be reduced, because a) the US has already reduced it's carbon loading by more than 25%, whereas China is expanding theirs by leaps and bounds, there's little point in beggaring our economy, or anybody else's, when all those efforts combined make no practical difference; and b) any catastrophic results that might be associated with global warming are a long way off in the future, making it possible and indeed more wise to adapt to them with a long-term plan rather than all this knee-jerk hysteria.

It is the knee-jerk hysteria concocted by governments, NGOs, envirozealots and people who want power and control that is the real danger here, not AGW, even if it is a fact, which is in my estimation, anything but certain at this point.

We don't see a consensus among nations, what we see is underdeveloped nations trying to get their piece of the pie by slamming. in particular, the US. They demand that we cut our emissions, which means destroying our industrial and productive economic base, but they get to increase their emissions because they are shit-hole third-world countries who want to take this opportunity to steal a march on the rest of the world.

I hear a lot about how we have to cut carbon emissions, and I see a lot of political power and control mongering being propagandized with the "goal" of "stopping global warming," but I also see scientific claims that, (arguendo), what CO2 is there already will be there for two centuries no matter what we do, and the short-term effects (in say the next 50 years) are unpredictable at best and not likely to cause global catastrophe even if they do occur.

Therefore I become highly suspicious of things like Obama's vetoing of the Keystone XL pipeline and his destruction of the US coal industry through unlawful EPA regulations as having nothing whatever to do with AGW and everything to do with his anti-American, Marxist Progressive agenda of humbling and humiliating the United States in accordance with his long-held Marxist principles...the ones he sucked from his mother's tits and was immersed in virtually 100 percent of the time during his impressionable youth.

He wants Marxist Progressive political control of the US and he wants Marxist Progressive domination of the entire world, using the UN as a stalking horse for oppressing and suppressing, in particular, the United States, which he views as a global blight and counterrevolutionary enemy that must be economically destroyed.

And the rest of the have-not 3rd world Marxist shitholes of the world want the same thing.

So I'm not buying the AGW hysteria because I don't see a rational reaction from people and governments to the alleged threat. What I see is opportunistic exploitation of junk science as a tool of political change towards socialism.

What I do not see is a rational response to the alleged emergency, which would consist of careful, long-term planning for adapting human society to deal with such change should such change ever actually occur. Nor do I see any rational consideration, much less long term planning for what becomes of the human race if the AGW zealots are completely wrong and we're actually entering a new ice age.

We can get along with warmer temperatures, all we have to do is migrate populations. We cannot likely survive global glaciation as a culture.

Panicking about one without even thinking about the other is pure unreason.

We need to adapt. Not try to make the planet adapt, because the planet is going to do what it's going to do. We need to be able to adapt to any sort of environmental changes, be they short term like hurricanes, volcanoes or storms, or long-term like rising sea levels and overall heating or cooling of the planet.

Otherwise we will die as a species if anything changes substantially, which history shows us is quite likely to happen...again...and again...and again.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:30 am

Animavore wrote:The term 'adapt or die' also applies to energy companies. As more people can be educated in climate science and be convinced to demand green energies and put pressure on compnaies to fulfil that demand or switch to others which can, then those companies that can adapt to the change in demand will prosper. Those unwillingly or unable will perish, much like those CD and DVD merchants unable to keep up with the digital age by plugging into internet technologies.
Capitalism in effect.
I'm fine with capitalism. But Obama's dictates through his pawns at the EPA that are destroying our coal industry, for example, are not "free market" pressures, they are unilateral executive actions intended to harm the power, prestige, military capacity and economy of the United States, and that cannot be tolerated.

If the people want green, then the people will demand green and government will not be required to regulate anything. When the government inserts itself into the functions of the capitalistic free market, it's not advancing the interests of the people, it's advancing the interests of the government, which is not at all the same thing.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:01 pm

Seth wrote: it's not advancing the interests of the people, it's advancing the interests of the government, which is not at all the same thing.
And that's where all of your arguments get ludicrous, because the people want government, and they chose THIS government. Whether it's good or bad for them is a matter of opinion.
And yours is just one opinion among hundreds of millions.

You've been outvoted. Try to take it like a man instead of whining about it.
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Tero » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:07 pm

klr wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but there was an excellent BBC4 program called Climate Change By Numbers on this week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jsdrk

Seek it out, it's a good one.
It's blocked outside the UK

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by mistermack » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:58 pm

Tero wrote:
klr wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but there was an excellent BBC4 program called Climate Change By Numbers on this week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02jsdrk

Seek it out, it's a good one.
It's blocked outside the UK
Shame.
It was quite funny. They didn't mention the number 18, the number of years that that the globe HASN'T warmed.
Or the number 1, the percentage of ''climate scientists'' who have an open mind.
Or infinity. The number of ''bad'' things that are claimed to be the result of global warming.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Seth » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:13 pm

mistermack wrote:
Seth wrote: it's not advancing the interests of the people, it's advancing the interests of the government, which is not at all the same thing.
And that's where all of your arguments get ludicrous, because the people want government, and they chose THIS government. Whether it's good or bad for them is a matter of opinion.
And yours is just one opinion among hundreds of millions.

You've been outvoted. Try to take it like a man instead of whining about it.
And therein lies the problem with the tyranny of the majority, which is precisely why I eschew socialism.

My rights are not up for public vote. Ever.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Tero » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:35 pm

You could always become a state, Seth, and make your own documents and flags and shit.
http://www.kvnonews.com/2011/10/anti-go ... forcement/

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by rainbow » Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Seth wrote: My rights are not up for public vote. Ever.
...which is absolutely fine, since you have no rights.

You think you do, but you don't.

:smug:
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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Seth » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:19 pm

rainbow wrote:
Seth wrote: My rights are not up for public vote. Ever.
...which is absolutely fine, since you have no rights.

You think you do, but you don't.

:smug:
I have those rights that I am able to claim and defend against intrusion by others. If you doubt that, come and try to take away my rights and see how I go about defending them.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by Seth » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:21 pm

Tero wrote:You could always become a state, Seth, and make your own documents and flags and shit.
http://www.kvnonews.com/2011/10/anti-go ... forcement/
Don't need to. But, if I and a sufficient number of others decide we do need to, we can do so because we have the right to do so. Whether we succeed or not is not relevant to whether we have a right to try.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Global Climate Change Science News

Post by rainbow » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:31 am

Seth wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Seth wrote: My rights are not up for public vote. Ever.
...which is absolutely fine, since you have no rights.

You think you do, but you don't.

:smug:
I have those rights that I am able to claim and defend against intrusion by others. If you doubt that, come and try to take away my rights and see how I go about defending them.
You don't get it.

There is nothing to take away.
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